Ale and Sushi

[SRB]

Afternoon,
I am digging around for thoughts and opinions on sushi pairing w/ ale styles.
Sushimi, Nigiri, and rolls.

thx
matt g

[PMR]

Witbier is always a nice sushi pairing.

[Diamond Knot]

Mmmmmmm........Sushi.........Beer......

Just my humble opinion..........

To me, sushi is based on delicate fresh flavors. Quality mean everything since there's no oils, heavy garlic, or lingering spiciness to hide behind. Sure, wasabi packs a whallop if you trowel it on (or in your soy sauce), but it's an "in and out" heat totally unlike a pepper heat. It hits you in the nose like a welter weight prize fighter, then is mysteriously gone in a Ninja-like vanishing act.

That said, I would recommend lighter beers that would not leave a lasting taste lingering on the tongue. Pilsner, a Dortmunder comes to mind, maybe a very light ale..........all good choices in my mind. My concern would be lacquering over the taste buds and blind them to the sushi taste.

This leaves out IPAs, Stouts, Porters, and (*Gasp!*) many Belgians. I mean..........how would that Hamachi taste if there was a phenolic "white noise" hanging around? I know our hoppy DK IPA would be a nuclear warhead of taste..............blowing away any ability to truly appreciate the fresh flavors by leaving a blanket of hop taste over the pallette. A Porter.......with there roasted profiles? I reckon I wasn't looking for smoked Uni.

Seriously, though. If someone wants a Barley Wine with their sushi, who's to say? Maybe offer a light and heavy option?

Just some notional thoughts and you know the saying about opinions!

[jason.koehler]

Hey Brian, long time no see in these parts of the internet!

SRB, are you talking about the crazy rolls that Americans call sushi, or something more traditional? If you're talking American-style, then I think you have the luxury to afford more off-beat pairings because there isn't anything 'delicate' about many Americanized offerings...see at the end.

In sushi restaurants in Japan (or restaurants in general in Japan) there is usually ONE choice for beer, a macro lager, BUT WAIT, THERE'S A CHOICE...draft or bottle!

The clean finish of lager does compliement the delicacies of nigiri and sashimi well though. If you're lucky, they'll have a same brand black/schwartzbier as well...

I personally enjoy sushi and sashimi quite often at home with a nice wheat based beer, most often traditional wiezen, but I avoid witbeers because the spices used often linger longer than I am looking for.

That said, I agree with Brian that the robust malt backbone and hoppiness of your standard IPA are too overpowering for the nuances of sushi, and it is best to avoid.

However, a nice clean finishing pale ale is nice, and can do a similar job as a clean lager. A beer like a Sierra Nevada pale ale is good, and the hop assertiveness would do a similar job as ginger in 'cleansing the pallet'. I think another good example would be Fuller's Discovery, the liberty hops they use are assertive but smooth, and get the job done.

For Americanized sushi, with fried crab, avacado, mayo, bbq'd eel, etc...I think Belgian ales make for fine pairings. A clean golden ale like Duvel would work well here. Witbier like Grisette with its mild spices would bring out the hodge-podge of flavors in a spider roll nicely. I'd stay away from sours and lambics though, as they would completely overpower the vinegar of the sushi rice.

Just my 2 yen...

[SRB]

.............
SRB, are you talking about the crazy rolls that Americans call sushi, or something more traditional?........

Sashimi not sushimi....ha!
Thanks for the feedback folks. separate partnership is working on opening a sushi bar inside the brewery.
They have been head sushi chefs at a popular Boise establishment for 7 years. They have a line on less than 24 hours off the boat sushi grade fish. So to my delight they are definitely planning on traditional sashimi and nigiri. I can say "more Hamachi please." There will be americanized rolls as well. mmmmmm fried spicy sauce roll.
Does anyone know of breweries offering sushi in their pubs? Whats the outlook on pubs in Japan jason? I imagine if there are any they serve sushi.
Quail eggs anyone?
matt g

[jason.koehler]

Unfortunately 'pubs' in Japan are all poor imitations of English and Irish pubs for the most part. Standard fish and chips and toad in the hole, etc...for the most part. Same Guinness, and an occasional surprise...

Japan has a unique kind of restaurant called the 'izakaya', which is usually an evening to late night establishment that serves a wide variety of Japanese foods, sushi, tempura, Japanese style fried chicken, etc...these places usually have a nice assortment of sake, shochu, and mixed shochu drinks, but unfortunately the same one or two beer choices as everywhere else

When I did sales calls in town for the last company I was with, I remember making my pitch to a few izakayas and being told that their customers didn't need an additional beer, that one was enough. I asked why then they needed 10 kinds of sake and many kinds of shochu, and was told that since all beer was the same, there was no need to have more varieties, but since shochu and sake were all different, customers liked having a choice...that's how much further this market has to go. To the typical Japanese, all beers are lagers and relatively the same.

Sure, there's a few craft bars, but nothing like there should be for a city of 12 million people and a country with 200 microbreweries. I'm kicking around opening my own craft beer bar now because its a wide open market here with good growth potential, but the Japanese craft market is less than .5 of a percent, so roughly 1/10th the size of the US...a long ways to go still...

[choicejohn]

To put my own 2 cents in, I designed a beer to pair with sushi using lots Green Tea, Wildflower Honey, Ginger and a hint of mint to balance and leave a crisp clean finish.

I used a light pilsen malt base with a bit of wheat and a hint of caramel malt, 20L to give some body and the hop profile was minimal. I know some people dont like adding garnishes to their beers but this one finished with Cascade hops and a thin tangerine slice in the top of the glass came out amazing for pairing with sashimi and softer rolls. Just an idea for you....

[gitchegumee]

Hey Jason! Doesn't seem fair to say that Japan's scene is all that bad. There is plenty going on there with many Belgian beer bars (Bois Cereste, to name one great), a really good internet beer newsletter from Brian Harrell, fantastic brewery supply via Jon McKinnon, and lots of beer festivals throughout the year. Contrast that with Korea, possibly the most dismal beer scene in the world. I spent more than two years in Korea trying (in vain) to educate folks about beer with taste. Forget it. There is no good beer in Korea. Comparitively, you have it made in Japan! And BTW, I've had great rolls in Japan--the trend may have started in the US, but it certainly has found a market in Japan. And one of my favorite sushi is Unagi Nigiri--smoked (or barbequed) fresh water eel--quite traditional, I believe. I would agree that most flavorful American beers would overpower the subtle flavors of good sushi. Maybe why sake or shochu is more traditional. That being said, there's no reason why a brewer couldn't feature a house-brewed sake (or shochu) with sushi. I never understood why sake brewing hasn't had some success in America. SRB, want to give it a go? Maybe the start of a new trend! Good sake is truly delicious! Cheers!

[jason.koehler]

Not trying to be a naysayer...but...

The problem with Japan's scene is that it really isn't a scene so much as is it a niche. Sure, in Tokyo where there are 12 million people, trendy niche places aren't uncommon, but there is no spread from the niche market into the general market...the penetration is insignificant. They really only exist in the Tokyo and Osaka metro areas, and awareness is minimal.

There's also the perception of imported beer being good, and thus why Belgian cafes are still springing up all over and the HUB chain has some 40 English themed pubs in which to serve Guinness. Unfortunately craft beer in Japan was over-financed and underwhelming when it first hit in the mid 90's, and still suffers from negative imagery and has a stigma of being a 'local' product. Many people I talked to wondered why I was trying to sell a beer from a small brewery up north in Tokyo...nevermind the fact that Yebisu is named after an area in Tokyo, and Sapporo after a city from the far north...

Bryan Harrell's Brews News is indeed a valuable service that is appreciated by many of the gaijin beer people in Japan, but keep in mind that its readers are a minority of a vast minority in the country. If Japan is ever going to have a viable craft market for beer, it won't be made by the likes of the BEERS club which consists of mostly expats.

Yes, Jon McKinnon brings some quality stuff to Japan. I just got a shipment of 30 rhizomes from him last week. There are also a number of other quality resellers of beer making supplies.

I'll agree that Korea is a lost cause though...ouch! And yes, comparatively speaking, I do have it made.

So far as getting rolls go, you likely went to a popular place like Roppongi or another area frequented by tourists, the Americanized rolls served there aren't for Japanese, and I'd guess fully 90% of the Japanese I tell about things like rainbow or Philly rolls didn't know they existed. Keep in mind these are very English language savvy people who have traveled abroad as well. If most of these people don't know about American-style sushi, then there's no chance your average person will. Yes, there are rolls here, but they are primarily filled with natto, pickles, and fatty tuna scraps. Bbq'd eel is pretty much alone in the 'exotic' department for nigiri, though you can occasionally find a kaiten sushi bar with mayo chicken and onion nigiri and the like...fairly contemporary, but hardly American-style sushi rolls.

Cheers

[SRB]

To put my own 2 cents in, I designed a beer to pair with sushi using lots Green Tea, Wildflower Honey, Ginger and a hint of mint to balance and leave a crisp clean finish......

Personally to me that sounds delicious.

Thanks for elaborationg jason and gitch......fascinating.

[scruz]

No IPA?

I read earlier that some were afraid of the repercussions of pairing big, robust beers (IPA, Big Belgians, etc.) with the delicate flavors of many sushi's... dont count the big boys out. While on paper it may seem as though these are all bad options for sushi, I have seen living proof otherwise here in the great city of Louisville. We Louisvillians take great pride in our eateries and im proud to say that we have many "outside the box" options. In this case, specifically, there is a sushi joint (more of a sake pub, with fantastic sushi) and they pride themselves in such a diverse beer list. While the favorites to pair with many sushis are there (Pils and such), there are also super hoppy IPAs, baltic porters, and high gravity belgians. Its a great pair in reality. Here is a link

http://www.maidosakebar.com/

just a thought. good luck.

[SRB]

Well just over two months in and our house Ales and Sushi offerings are a smash hit! Only four beers on..Golden, Pale, IPA and Stout but all four are being gleefully drunk while yummy slabs of fish meat are devoured!

Our bratwurst, slow smoked ribs and baked chicken wings etc. are holding their own as well.......it has been quite a sight to see our beers and brats and chicken wings on the same table as a sashimi platters and sushi rolls! HA! Who would have thunk!

We do offer wine and sake (hot and cold) but our beer is 95%+ of sales. Gitchegumee I think it would be a blast to brew and sell house sake in our little pub. With our open top fermenters I worry about cross contamination of yeasts. At this point 1318 is all we are brewing with.

[wildcrafter]

SRB and Jason,,both stories are pretty interesting. Jason's story sounds like the new rough and tough frontier of beginnings. Interesting to hear about Japan and Korea relating to beer. A friend lives in Ha Noi and just started an american burger joint with street food vendors around his corner building. Beers are $US 0.33/12oz. on every corner--local brews. Rough markets,,rough realities. Dang,,,that's some cheap beer in Vietnam! Green chile cheeseburgers in Ha Noi,,,,bet it wins! Expat success? From here to there?

How much were/are beers in Korea and Japan?

[gitchegumee]

The yellow fizzy pee they call beer in Korea is not too expensive. Anything good that's imported is. Japan's beers are VERY expensive. Contrast that with Japan's selling price of single malt scotch, which may be the cheapest anywhere. Some crazy tax scheme they have there!

[jason.koehler]

Wildcrafter, it is a new frontier, unfortunately one where there is no united front on the craft side to push things forward, just a bunch of little guys (although some with deep pockets) fighting for their little piece of the pie.

Gitch is right, beer IS expensive and certainly has it's price competitors here, including it's own worst enemy in 'happoshu', a low tax beer-like beverage. A can of lager runs about $2.25 for an all-malt beer, but due to having loads of adjuncts which are taxed lower than malt. A can of happoshu can be as low as $1. The taste is what you might expect at that discount

A good pint out on the town in Tokyo? Tokyo's most famous beer bar, Popeye, was selling pints of Rogue IIPA for $12 last week, and Stone Ruination for about $14. You can get local craft selections for about $10 per pint though, and the quality is there these days. The faux-Irish/English pubs are making a killing though on Guinness/Bass and the like, as their cost is low and they sell it for $9 per pint!

SRB, gratz on the pairing success! I'm dubious about the stout pairing though, but I'll try it myself before I pass judgment. I just heard about a 'sushi-go-round' restaurant that's carrying Baird Beer as well as some Belgian bottles, so I'll check it out!