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jjs
07-11-2008, 08:32 AM
I know this has been extensively covered but I want to make an Oktoberfest beer and the dry yeast German strain sounds very good. I can not propogate this yeast so 1 kilo for 8-10 bbl. I'd rather use fresh yeast but the cost savings is attractive. How reliable is this yeast and what's the final product like?
Thanks

beertje46
07-11-2008, 09:00 AM
Which strain? Do a search (above between new posts & quick links) on Fermentis, Saflager and yeast. You should be able to get opions on many of the dry products.

MatthewS
07-11-2008, 10:52 AM
I always had great luck with this yeast at the previous brewery I worked at. I never made a slurry or hydrated it. I used the recommended dosage and just poured it right in the fermenter on top of the aerating wort during knockout. YUP Right through the manway.

Good luck

Jephro
07-11-2008, 11:30 AM
I always had great luck with this yeast at the previous brewery I worked at. I never made a slurry or hydrated it. I used the recommended dosage and just poured it right in the fermenter on top of the aerating wort during knockout. YUP Right through the manway.

Good luck
Interesting... How long did it take to kick?

jjs
07-11-2008, 12:21 PM
Saflager C & B. I've used plenty of the Windsor, Nottingham with ok success. But with Lager it's different. I don't like the idea of pitching warm and cooling down when ferment starts. Pithing 1 kilo of dry yeast into cool wort just sounds scary. What is the viability of these yeasts now? Some say significant progress has been made with them.

wailingguitar
07-11-2008, 06:19 PM
I have used Safale SO4 and Saflager S23 a great deal... I use 1 brick for each ten barrels (or fraction thereof) of the batch... dump it dry in the manway just prior to knockout. Knocking out at around 3pm, I have always had active ferment when coming in the next morning.

I understand why some people like to rehydrate, but my experience is that it is not needed... besides, every additional step you take on the sanitary side is just one more chance for opportunistic microflora to sneak in... Food for thought.

JoeV
07-11-2008, 08:23 PM
I have heard problems can arise when trying to re-pitch from a batch that was intially pitched with dry yeast. I have never personally used dry yeast but have been very tempted to start $130 dollars to pitch a 15bbl batch with dry vs. $$$ to pitch with liquid yeast (from commercial sources) and lead times. It might be just the trick for seasonals or one-offs you don't brew with any regularity. It might be worth considering keeping a pitch worth of dry yeast on hand (it's good for 1 year) just in case you get a stuck fermentation or the brew schedule requires a batch before any slurry or re-pitch yeast is available. I have started doing this just as a "mayday backup" plan. ~$130 per year is cheap insurance in my mind :) The vinter next door to me tells me they use dry yeast exclusivly with no problems...although wine has a lot of sulfites and is a different animal. I would be curious to how many brewers use the dry stuff and what they think of it.

pennbrew2
07-11-2008, 09:42 PM
I have heard problems can arise when trying to re-pitch from a batch that was intially pitched with dry yeast.

What kind of problems?

---Guy

wailingguitar
07-11-2008, 10:08 PM
I have heard problems can arise when trying to re-pitch from a batch that was intially pitched with dry yeast.

What problems have you heard of?

I can't say that I have ever had a single issue. I usually go to about 5 generations, but have gone to as many as 9 with SO4. Honestly after the initial pitch, there is no appreciable difference.

I have also used the dry Nottingham, and while I didn't care for it as much (not as smooth to my taste and not as flocculant as SO4 making filtering a necessity), I had good results with it too. Always pitching dry and going an average of 5 or so gens.

JoeV
07-12-2008, 09:17 AM
Good to know people are re-pitching without problem. I have heard that dry yeast can have a higher bacterial load intitially than liquid due to manufacturing practices and therefore re-pitching is not advised with dry yeast. People also say the drying process is hard on the yeast impacting their brewing properties (flocculation, attenuation etc.) in future generations. I would imagine the technology is much better these days for dry yeast and the products are much better than they were back in the day . As I mentioned I have never personally used it so I am glad to know you can re-pitch without problem. Lellamand is giving a talk on dry yeast comming up the end of this month, I should probably go. I would really like to know if there is any sound diference between dry vs. wet yeast. Any one know of any pappers out there regarding the subject?

Laughing Dog
07-12-2008, 09:25 AM
The stories of repitching dry yeast having problems because it doesn’t repitch well are pure bunk!

If you take care of your yeast once it has been pitched and harvested it is no different than yeast pitched from liquid slurry. Maybe 8-10 years ago the bacteria count was higher in the dry yeast but not anymore, the manufacturing process is much better. If you wash your yeast and use careful practices when harvesting (just like you are pitching Liquid at first) then you will have no issues.

We use three different dry yeasts in the brewery and have gone up as far as 19 generations on some before starting over

so don’t believe that liquid yeast is the only way to go

Laughing Dog

jjs
07-12-2008, 10:13 AM
Ok I'm sold. As for pitching rate and temp. Do you recommend pitching in at ambient (66) then cool as it begins to ferment, or is 2 bricks (1 kilo) enough to start it going at cooler temps. I know the labs say that ester and sulfur production are not present at start of ferment. I don't feel that's true. I'd like to start it at a slightly higher temp saay, 58 then back it down slowly to 52 53 or so. Thaughts on that? This will be a 9 - 10 bbl of 15P Okto. Thanks

wailingguitar
07-12-2008, 04:47 PM
I always pitch S23 lager at around 65-68F and start ramping down as fermentation goes on. I have had good fermentations with this yeast as low as 38F. Even starting at the relatively warm temp, it can brew a very clean and crisp Pilsner. I have had no sulfur issues with this yeast.. ever.

jjs
07-14-2008, 08:55 AM
Same with the S189 I assume?

wailingguitar
07-14-2008, 11:30 AM
Same with the S189 I assume?

I think it's a safe bet, although I have never used 189