Rye usage with cara-pils

[yelram4life]

I'm writing a recipe for a 7bbl system to be brewed next week... about 17% rye malt. I've been brewing professionally for four years but this is my first recipe so I'm a bit nervous. The recipe calls for approx 10% Muntons cara-pils because i've read that rye affects head retention and also I want this beer to have a nice body (curvaceous-LOL) and a big rocky head. In addition to the base malt (Muntons Perle Pale) I'm adding 1% crystal @ 150 Lov. and 50lbs. of rice hulls. The ABV will be 7.3%...I guess what I'm wondering is...can one use too much cara-pils? And does 1% seem too little? Geez I'm nervous this recipe will be shitty...I've confidently written hundreds of recipes at home that turned out wonderful but this is a whole different ballgame...Any help is appreciated.

[Buckley]

I do a rye brown every year that uses 20%. I don't use rice hulls, but my run off is about 25-30 minutes longer than usual. Having that small of a system I would say that is way more rice hulls than you need. I am using a 10bbl system and do most of my brews in 8bbl due to having a handful of smaller fermenters. For my hefe which is 50 50 2 ow and wheat I still use 25 lbs of rice hulls and it works out fine.
I am personally of the opinion that cara pils is not needed. Rye will lend well to the body. If you want a little more, mash few degrees on the warm side 155-ish =) As for head....you could add some wheat. My 2 cents

[beertje46]

I agree with Buckley; no need for carapils and 50# rice hulls is over kill, I use 25# in a 30 bbl. batch 50/50 Hefe. For more head you can use some wheat, I prefer flaked barley.

[BMOOR]

I agree with Buckley. hulls probably not needed unless your mash tun sucks with a normal barley grist bill. 50 lbs is a lot too. HAve you ever cut open those 50 lb bags of rice hulls? You would be surprised at how much volume that is (with such little mass per hull)
My rye beer uses about 25%. no problems.
Also, I think 10% c-pils and under is the recomendation. Could be wrong. I use 5-10% when using.
1% crystal malt seems low. will it do much? (i.e. 5 lbs in a 500 lb batch is not much)

My guess is that if you have been brewing successfully in large batches for four years, it's not gonna suck. It may not hit your mark, but just like doin it in 5 gallon batches-drink it and tweak it next time.
good luck

[Buckley]

I would think more of a lighter caramel would help out with your body as well. Like a C-60 or 80.. in the 5-10% range?? Grant it you will have a slightly different flavor from those than the 120 you mentioned.

[Jephro]

Flakes

A brewery i worked for years ago used a 25# bag of flaked barley in every recipe to increase head retention. This leads me to Flaked Rye. Why not sub part of your Rye with Flaked Rye? Would Flaked Rye not add the same head retention as the other flaked products?
..or for that extra body and some good head - Flaked Oats.

[kugeman]

I use 20% rye in my blonde ale, and I find that hulls are pretty much unnecessary. It will give you a nice grainy/spicy flavor in the beer. I've never noticed an increase in head retention using rye malt. Torrified Wheat, Flaked Barley etc... will do that though.

[yelram4life]

Jephro...I'm worried about run-off otherwise I would have used flaked rye...everything I've read says flaked will gelatinize into a sticky mess...

So, I'm increasing the crystal to 13 lbs to get me to 14 lov. @3% of the overall grain bill...

We put a bag of torrified into every batch so I wanted to get away from that for a change and experiment with other ways of providing head...

[yelram4life]

also reducing the rice hulls to 25#

[BMOOR]

just wondering...what's up with the font? Not easy to read.

[beertje46]

just wondering...what's up with the font? Not easy to read.

Yeah, cut that out, and cut-out some more of those rice hulls. I use 25 lbs. in a 30 bbl. batch of 50/50 Hefe Weizen. Unless you have problems lautering your regular beers you are wasting good material.

[jjs]

Forget the carapils and that's a lot of rice hulls. Just put the rye on the top of the mash. Extra head retention like everyone's said; Wheat or Flaked barley. Warmer mash is a must to get those "curves"

[brewbonghm]

If you have the capacity to step your mash,
Try doughing in at about 113 with a steady rise to about 135
hold it there for about 15 minutes and bring it up at about 1F/min to 160.
no carapils, no lautering probs and plenty of curvulatious curves.
50 # of rice hulls is enough for about 50bbl with that grist.

[jjs]

And if you can't step, you can always side mash the rye in a large "cambro" at 135 D and add it when you dough in. I've done this with un-malted adjuncts just to get the protease action going. Works well

[yelram4life]

Thanks for all the help...with any luck this batch will go down easy!