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wildcrafter
07-28-2008, 07:02 AM
Here's some recent info about whiskey aromas. Does anybody get this intense about beer chemistry?

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/jafcau/2008/56/i14/pdf/jf800382m.pdf

I found it interesting how vanilla and eugenol(cloves/basil) were common in whiskey. Who uses vanilla and/or eugenol in beer? I guess the cask aging gets the beer infused with these chemicals from the whiskey.

I think single malt Scotch Whiskey has lovage seed as one of the "secret" ingredients, but is it in american whiskey also?

fatty_matty
07-28-2008, 11:00 AM
What i find interesting about Scotch Whisky, particularly single malt, is the fact that alot - dare i say the majority - are aged in American Oak which has come from single use bourbon barrels. They're broken down, shipped here and reassembled - crazy huh?! Diageo prefer them as the wood tends to be less porous, so the angels get less of a share ;)

beertje46
07-28-2008, 12:03 PM
What i find interesting about Scotch Whisky, particularly single malt, is the fact that alot - dare i say the majority - are aged in American Oak which has come from single use bourbon barrels. They're broken down, shipped here and reassembled - crazy huh?! Diageo prefer them as the wood tends to be less porous, so the angels get less of a share ;)

Here's what 50 bourbon barrels looks like broken down and ready to ship to Diageo. I took this pic on the loading dock of Kelvin Cooperage (http://www.kelvincooperage.com/)

wildcrafter
07-28-2008, 02:28 PM
What i find interesting about Scotch Whisky, particularly single malt, is the fact that alot - dare i say the majority - are aged in American Oak which has come from single use bourbon barrels. They're broken down, shipped here and reassembled - crazy huh?! Diageo prefer them as the wood tends to be less porous, so the angels get less of a share ;)

Help me out a minute here. Isn't Scotch made in Scotland and Bourbon made in the USA? Isn't there some terroir naming thing?

Sulfur
07-28-2008, 04:02 PM
It says in the article that Bourbon can be made anywhere as long as you use the correct procedure.

beertje46
07-29-2008, 04:00 AM
From Wiki Wiki Wow Wow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_whiskey)

On 4 May 1964, the U.S. Congress recognized Bourbon Whiskey as a “distinctive product of the United States," creating the Federal Standards of Identity for Bourbon. Federal regulations now stipulate that Bourbon must meet these requirements:

* Bourbon must be made of a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn.
* Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
* Bourbon must be 100% natural (nothing other than water added to the mixture).
* Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.
* Bourbon which meets the above requirements and has been aged for a minimum of two years, may (but is not required to) be called Straight Bourbon.
* Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labelled with the duration of its aging.

In practice, almost all bourbons marketed today are made from more than two-thirds corn, have been aged at least four years, and do qualify as "straight bourbon"—with or without the "straight bourbon" label. The exceptions are inexpensive commodity brands of bourbon aged only three years and pre-mixed cocktails made with bourbon aged the minimum two years.

Sulfur
07-29-2008, 06:17 AM
I guess "anywhere" means it can be produced outside of Kentucky as well but it still must be in the U.S. according to the above. Kind of like Koelsch refers to the beer around Koeln only, but it can be literally made anywhere in the world.

wildcrafter
07-29-2008, 06:35 AM
What i find interesting about Scotch Whisky, particularly single malt, is the fact that alot - dare i say the majority - are aged in American Oak which has come from single use bourbon barrels. They're broken down, shipped here and reassembled - crazy huh?! Diageo prefer them as the wood tends to be less porous, so the angels get less of a share ;)
So am I to understand then that American oak barrels are used once here in the US for bourbon, shipped to Scotland for Scotch Whiskey use, then returned to the US for beer aging?

BrewinLou
07-29-2008, 06:58 AM
I have never heard of any barrels ever coming back from Scotland. But I would love to age some beer in one of those. We get our barrels direct from a Bourbon distiller, when we are done with them they are returned to a cooperage for use as fire wood for new barrels or cut in half for planters. Yeast left in the barrels fouls them for further use in the beverage biz. Funny thing the guy at the cooperage said he broke down a couple truck loads for Japan to be reassembled and cut in half for planters over there. Man the dollar must be as weak as it gets.

As for making Bourbon anywhere, well sort of. It works in Kentucky so well because of the native rock. Limestone, it is porous and filters out almost all iron from spring water. Thus making the natural water VERY condusive to making Bourbon. I have been told by the master distiller at Maker's Mark that if the iron is not removed it makes a very unpleasant flavor and color in the mash.

NinkasiSwain
07-29-2008, 08:10 PM
I'd also love to get my hands on some used Scotch barrels for beer. Only brewery I'm familiar with doing this is Harviestoun -- aging their Old Engine Oil in used 12-, 16-, and 30-year single-malt Scotch barrels from Highland Park Distillery. The three variants share the name "Ola Dubh" (Black Oil), and they're a real treat ("treat" as in: a great pleasure to drink, but personally can't afford to drink more than once in awhile).

'Course the cost of shipping the barrels from Highland Park to Harviestoun isn't that high, relatively...

Anyone know of any bourbon-barrel traffickers involved in the return trip 'crost the Atlantic?

fatty_matty
07-31-2008, 12:49 PM
Another good barrel aged beer is Innis and Gunn, they started the craze here in the UK for this type of beer. I don't know if the barrels would come back over to the US. From the distillers i've spoken to they generally reuse them until they can't kiln any decent flavors from them. There has to be someone though who'd send back over the pond, could talk to the brewers at Harvieston. If you could get your hands on some nice peaty Islay barrels and make a really dark lager or porter...mmmmmm nice beer :)