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Costing CO2

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  • Costing CO2

    Hi all.
    I'm looking for some real world info on bulk CO2 tank refill schedules. How often do you fill and service your CO2 supply. Please note your batch size and Ale/lager stats.
    Thanks,
    Rob
    Thanks,
    Rob

  • #2
    We use 2000 lbs. a week, topping our 6 ton tank off every 5 weeks (we never let it get below 2000 lbs). 5400 bbls. annual volume, 80% ales.

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    • #3
      Costing C02

      Depends on what size receivers you have and usage...larger receivers need less fillings than a series of, say 750# x 3...but if the latter is the case and your gross AP is above 5K then I would have the comapny service the tank farm every week regardless of usage...just my two cents--owen

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      • #4
        Isn't there a way for you to salvage CO2?

        Originally posted by csquared
        We use 2000 lbs. a week, topping our 6 ton tank off every 5 weeks (we never let it get below 2000 lbs). 5400 bbls. annual volume, 80% ales.
        I'm a complete novice and trying to learn the ropes right now, but isn't there a way for a microbrewery to somehow salvage CO2 from the fermentation?

        Cheers.

        Bill Velek

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        • #5
          Your mileage will vary

          Originally posted by csquared
          We use 2000 lbs. a week, topping our 6 ton tank off every 5 weeks (we never let it get below 2000 lbs). 5400 bbls. annual volume, 80% ales.
          Our brewery is about as identical to csquared's as you can get; same brew length, same annual production, same bottle filler, we only brew 120 bbls. of lager a year - rest ales. We use just shy of 4000 lbs per month, 3800+-, and fill our 2 ton tank once a month.
          Cheers & I'm out!
          David R. Pierce
          NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
          POB 343
          New Albany, IN 47151

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          • #6
            Bill, the short answer is NO. There are too many nasty compounds in the CO2 derived from fermentation. The best you can do is to spund your tanks near the end of fermentation to naturally carbonate your beer.
            Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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            • #7
              Spund??

              Thanks Phillip. I tried to look up the meaning of "spund", but couldn't find one. Do you have a short definition?

              Cheers.

              Bill Velek

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              • #8
                Stick a cork in it!

                Hey all.
                Thanks for the responses. I'm opening a pub. No bottling, no bottle filler. My Zahm tells me how much disolved CO2 I have and when I've reached my desired volumes. I've just never been responsible for paying the gas man. I know I could use Henry's Law to budget my useage, but I'm not quite that bright....

                "Math is, like....hard. Or something."

                Bill,

                Spund just means 'Cork', 'stopper', 'plug up' etc. A spunding device actually has a set pressure or a settable pressure where it will relieve itself if the pressure goes over the setting. It is in effect like the PRVR valve on a modern uni-tank. I'll accept corrections if people want to post 'em.
                Thanks,
                Rob

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                • #9
                  Yikes!!!

                  Originally posted by csquared
                  We use 2000 lbs. a week, topping our 6 ton tank off every 5 weeks (we never let it get below 2000 lbs). 5400 bbls. annual volume, 80% ales.
                  Holy Cow!!! I never realized that CO2 would be such a MAJOR part of the cost of a brewpub or microbrewery. At that rate, you're using 2000*52/5400= 19.26 pounds/barrel ... or almost ten pounds per keg. PLUS the capital investment for a huge tank, and I'm sure an annual inspection. How much are you paying when you buy it by the ton ... and how are you packaging to require that much? Just kegging, or do you bottle or can??

                  Thanks for any info. I definitely need to include this in our cost analysis.

                  Cheers.

                  Bill Velek

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                  • #10
                    Spund is a shortened word for a type of valve manufactured in Germany that regulates pressure, the term can be used to describe a process where the valve action is mimicked in process, ie. cap off in the last part of fermentation. I have found, over the years that this also helps precipitate yeast and increases the efficacy of finings.

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                    • #11
                      We keg and bottle, right about 50/50. We also transfer all of our beers via pressure, no pumping. Our front of house draught lines are also using the tank carbon dioxide, but it is a minority of the usage (less than 5%). Our cost per lb. is 12 cents with the 6 ton tank. Buying the tank is an option, but we signed a 7 year contract and the tank was provided at essentially no cost, inspection included. Much better than the 750 lb. dewars for handling and safety. You will want to be at a certain volume to make the larger tank worth your while.

                      So yeah, $2.30 a barrel in co2 usage, a pound of hops per barrel hurts a whole lot more!

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                      • #12
                        This thread got me thinking I should update our CO2 usage info. Here's what I found:

                        lbs $/# AP(bbl.) lbs./bbl $/bbl.
                        2001 10,636 $0.82 2,250 4.73 $3.89
                        2002 12,357 $0.82 2,535 4.87 $3.98
                        2003 11,934 $0.84 2,601 4.59 $3.84
                        2004 14,710 $0.87 2,713 5.42 $4.72
                        2005 13,803 $0.88 2,962 4.66 $4.12
                        2006 18,994 $0.86 4,143 4.58 $3.92
                        2007 24,107 $0.96 5,431 4.44 $4.27

                        We have a range of tanks from 15 to 60 bbl., a 30bbl brewhouse and move beer by pump. We produce mostly ales and package exclusively in kegs. We have two 400# insulated bulk tanks and are in Anchorage AK where the CO2 arrives in rail cars, barged from Seattle (and, of course, men are men, goods are odd, Gov's are VP candidates, etc.)

                        Looks to me like cquared is running at 19.3 #/bbl, beertje at 8.4.
                        Clarke Pelz
                        Cynosure Brewing

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