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View Full Version : "Nutty" Flavor from Pils Malt?????



brewingnewbie
10-28-2008, 07:06 PM
i've noticed this little "nuttiness" flavor coming from 2 of my beers.
one is a german pils and the other belgian tripel.

the common denominator in both is dingeman's pilsner malt.

with the tripel the taste kinda hits after the initial spice, fruit, alcohol tastes subside.the pils is remarkably clean besides this flavor.

would something like this come from the malt?
i usually use briess pilsner malt and can't ever remember tasting this before when i used it.

its not that strong of a flavor but noticable...its driving me crazy!
doesn't ruin the beers; i just don't like it there.

whadda think? any ideas?

Burbankbrewer
10-29-2008, 11:35 AM
Do you firebrew or use steam? If fire you could be getting just a bit of that from the heat of the kettle. I would contact the maltster and ask him. http://www.specialtymalts.com/maltster/

Otherwise try switching to another like Best Malz from Germany.

http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/malt/BestMalz.asp

brewingnewbie
10-29-2008, 01:08 PM
its a 7bbl newlands steam system

Dr Malt
10-29-2008, 02:43 PM
Have you tasted the malt? Does it have the same nutty character? If not, can you detect this flavor in the wort made from this malt? A process of elimination should help you identify the source of this flavor.

Dr Malt

Coast
10-29-2008, 04:23 PM
call me crazy but sometimes I think this flavor is a precursor to DMS. Before it gets veggie. Could be on the malters side, but if you spend to much time in the whirlpool stage then it can make it come out more as the beer ages. Hard to say but just what I thought when I read this post. Cheers!

brewingnewbie
10-30-2008, 08:07 AM
i do not believe that i tasted in the wort during production of either beers.
both beers had a 90 minute open boil. (worrying about dms)
i'll contact the maltster and see what they say.

i might even clean the beer lines real well and eliminate that possibility.

Capt. Bob
10-30-2008, 11:14 AM
I use Dingeman's Pilsner as the base malt for everything I brew.
Can't say I've ever gotten a "nutty" flavor from it.
I also use a direct fire kettle.

Bob
Saint Somewhere Brewing
Tarpon Springs FL

jarviw
10-30-2008, 03:49 PM
another possibility of the nutty flavor, unfortunately, has to do with wild yeast infection. It's more of a medicinal nutty flavor, and progress more dominantly as the beer age.

Nugget
05-17-2010, 07:54 AM
Hi!

I think this could be some kind of wild yeast.
It also happened to me in our microbrewery (not opened yet). My last batches (Pilsner, Kolsch, etc) had different perceived taste and smell, but always medicinal/nutty.

Some batches where fermented partially (20L) using other yeast strains for yeast propagation and the end result was fantastic. Is this because of the yeast/wild yeast ratio or is it contamination made in the fermenter?

How can i kill this wild beasts efficiently?

What do you all think about brewing water with 0,62 mg/L Iron?

As you can see, i appreciate some help from the experienced friends out there...

Brewers Regards,
Nugget

william.heinric
05-18-2010, 06:36 AM
You know, some nuttiness is generally present in a good European pils malt. Try sitting down with a draught Pilsner Urquell, and I think you'll find that the very soft malt profile has hints of nuttiness to it.

There may be a component that is accentuated by sulfur from fermentation, but I think that the nutty profile that you're worried about is just the distinguishing feature of high-end Euro pils malt.

I've used the Briess, Dingemans, and some Franco-Belges malt. If this is a good sampling of malts, then I would say look to a US maltster for a clean malt profile, and a Euro maltster for something more complex.

Bill

safety man
05-18-2010, 06:48 AM
Nugget
If I were you I would bring in a QC/QA consultant to design a cleaning and sanitation program for your brewery.
Your chemical provider can give you instructions on how to use certain chemicals, but only an experienced brewer knows how to use them appropriately in a brewery application.
Wild yeast can be prolific, and extremely hard to remove from your system.

Nugget
05-19-2010, 03:13 PM
When i talk about nutty flavor in beer, i mean "bitter almond" in the worst case i experienced.

I think i had some kind of good info about sanitation in the microbrewery operations on my brief internship in Germany.

Like i told, the same wort was fermented with other yeast and the result has no nutty flavor.

This is driving me crazy!

The good thing is i made a huge amount of test batches (20L) with all the possible variations.

The beer i am talking about in the posts is a Pilsner, made with Pilsner malt.

About the Iron concentration, anyone have an idea of the impact this can give?

The "QC/QA consultant" is pretty good if i where in one "brewing tradition country". Here, even the engineer doesn't know how to help! There are no microbreweries (and I'm talking about an European country)!

Regards,
Nugget

safety man
05-20-2010, 06:51 AM
I'm not sure what country you are in, but Doemens in Germany has plenty of people that will work as a consultant in your brewery.

Nugget
05-25-2010, 06:11 AM
The problem is gone!

After a few days at 6C the flavor is normal!

Thanks to everyone!

Nugget
09-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Just to help someone clarify this issues, I will share my observations from the batches with nutty (medicinal) problems:

- Hefeweizen which started with good fermentation, showed this issue;
- Pilsners with different yeasts, showed the same problem (same malt in all batches of pilsner);
- The same yeast used in pilsner, when fermenting dark lagers (with and without pilsner malt), resulted in perfect beers;
- In spite of cold conditioning, the pilsners where with the nutty flavour;
- The aroma was always strong (medicinal nutty);

Possibilities are:
- Yeast under-pitching?
- Pilsner malt? (I have tasted the fermenting pilsner batch yesterday and it is just fine, with 7 days at 14C and 5P. I used Pilsner malt from a Belgian malt maker, and hops from Germany.)
- Iron in water? (The water company also changed the connecting pipes in all neighborhood, last two weeks.)
- Wort cooling to slow? (I can only manage to cool the wort to aprox. 35-40C because I dont have a chiller already. Usually I pitch the yeast in the next day, when I pump air throw a aquarium stone for 1 hour/200l. The fermenter is cooled overnight in the walk-in chiller room.)

Can anyone help?

Thanks,
Nugget

Moonlight
09-26-2010, 07:48 PM
I am concerned about pitching the next day. Generally this is a cardinal sin. I have suspicions that a low-level infection could be having it's way with the wort before you pitch it. Try taking a sample out of the fermenter before pitching, put it in a sterilized pint glass (or such), covering it with plastic wrap and watch it for a few days. Look for haze, then smell it. Pour back and forth roughly between closed glasses (like a bartender shaking a drink) and smell again. It may be a function of a small inoculation of an undesirable creature, which is more or less productive in different random batches. A dark beer is more reductive, more acidic (a different medium), and more flavor hiding. Even an excellent understanding of sanitation can miss little things.

I would suspect that iron pieces broken free from old pipes would not influence the beer, unless the water was colored or hazed. I would expect that size of particles would cause them to fall to the hot liquor tank bottom and be lost when it is rinsed out. I couldn't rule it out completely, though with so many unknown variables.

Nugget
09-29-2010, 01:23 AM
Thank you very much, Moonlight!

I learned a lot with your reply...

Kind Regards,
Nugget

Nugget
10-14-2010, 07:56 PM
With further reading, I found out that the nutty flavor is , by definition, furfuryl compound (almond like).

Am I boiling the wort to hot?

Regards,
Nugget