Build your own caustic?

[burlybeer]

Not being in the brewing industry anymore, I no longer have access to some of the necessities that I was used to using...namely chlorinated caustic. I do however have access to Red Devil Lye and chlorine bleach, etc.

2 grams anhydrous Lye in 100ml water gives me a 2% caustic solution.

If I wanted to build my own chlor-caustic, how much of a typical 5% Bleach solution (ie Clorox) would I need in that 100 ml. I'm not sure of the percentage of chlorine that was in the built product I was using (Loeffler)

Also, what would/should I use as a wetting agent, or will I need one.

Thanks

[gitchegumee]

We used to build our own caustic using 50% NaOH, 5.25% NaClO, and sodium gluconate as a chelating agent--sorry I don't have any measures for the ingredients. I know it's important to limit the NaClO to a small amount to keep stainless from pitting. Also know that using the three chemicals to build your own will very closely approximate commercial cleaners. Good luck.

[beertje46]

Couldn't you buy some from one of your local breweries? Assuming you're in the Atlanta zipcode still; Sweetwater, Atlanta Brewing.

[gitchegumee]

Actually, the Atlanta Brewing Company is where I learned to build my own caustic. They might still do things this way, but it's been a while and they may use a prepackaged product now. Give them a jingle to find out. Good luck.

[burlybeer]

I answered my own question.

Malting and Brewing Science Vol 2 indicates a max of 250 ppm for 304 stainless. 30ml/gal household bleach will give me a little under 200 ppm.

I am on good terms with the folks at ABC (and yes Phil, they use prebuilt product now), this is mainly an exercise to help some homebrewers and myself in a pinch.

Thanks!

[gitchegumee]

So now that I'm ready to clean tanks in a new brewery, I find that I only have access to simple chemicals. No prebuilt non-caustics, acids, or sanitizers. Looks like I have to buy NaOH and work from there. Anybody else making their own blends? Sure would like to know how to make a non-caustic. I hate NaOH. And a how-to for nitric/phosphoric would be great. Any help?

[kai]

Phil,

Why do you hate NaOH? Is it the temperatures required? The personal danger?

[Larry Doyle]

I think beer guys should make beer and chemical guys should make chemicals and never the twain shall meet.

[gitchegumee]

Larry, I'll have to respectfully disagree. A good brewer should know water chemistry, organic and inorganic soil removal, sanitation, health, and environmental aspects of cleaning chemicals. Knowing sequestering agents, chelating agents, wetting agents, surfactants, dispersants; how and why they work, when to use them, how to use them effectively and safely is part of a good brewer's job. Otherwise, what do we do? Rely on a chemical supplier's sales rep to tell us what to buy and how to use? And I don't like sodium hydroxide both because it usually requires heat to work well, and is highly aggressive to humans. PBW or Bru-R-Eze is so much better in my opinion. So how to make something similar?

[Larry Doyle]

Its all coming back to me. My philosophy of "brewers should make beer; chemical guys should make chemicals" came from none other than Dirk Loeffler.

[gitchegumee]

Brian, I agree that metasilicates can leave scale, and particularly a brownish oxalate "bronzing" in tanks. And that the advantage of cooler metasilicate cleaning can be undone by the follow up warm, strong acid to remove this. Pricing and other disadvantages I can live with in favor of safety. (There's no comparison between safety of powdered PBW and powdered/anhydrous NaOH--or even liquid 50% NaOH.) After years of using both, I like the safer product. Particularly for my employees. And at the low temperatures and CO2 environment of a serving tank in a cold room of full serving tanks, caustic really isn't an option.
My reason for bringing this all up is not to save a dime by reinventing the cleaning products; it is because I do not have access to properly built cleaning chemicals for the brewing/dairy industry. Plain caustic, nitric, and phosphoric is what I can get, along with some other agents. So I'm after ideas on how to prepare a safe and effective cleaner from scratch.
For the brewhouse, fermenters, and PHE, I'll use NaOH and RO water perhaps with a bit of bleach at warm, post-knockout temperatures. For the cold room serving tanks, RO with a nitric/phosphoric blend. But what weight percents, and with what detergents & dispersants? All will be used with CIP sprayballs, so I'd like a low-foaming product. I guess research and careful trial and error are going to guide me. Thanks for your help!