Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cleaning/Sanitizing Unitanks

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cleaning/Sanitizing Unitanks

    We are a completely new startup in need of some expert knowledge. We have (2) 15BBL DME Uni's that we need to maintain and wanted to ask about our proposed cleaning/santizing regimen. We plan to use a "Sanford and Son" CIP system built from a 1.5 HP Sanitary pump to push 180F PBW water through the sprayballs and then using the same pump, push StarSan/water mixture through the sprayballs. We would reclaim each into a reservoir through a fine mesh filter and reuse for conditioning tanks, etc. A couple of questions on this.

    Do I need to be concerned with the specs on the pump? ie. PSI generated, speed of impeller, etc.?

    What volume of solutions will I need to effectively clean the Uni's and the conditioning tanks?

    How long can I reuse the "cleaning solution" and the "sanitizer" before disposing it?

    Any need for a caustic solution?

    Any responses will be greatly appreciated from a novice turning daily brewer. Thanks.

  • #2
    Cleaning & Sanitation AND Engineering

    Hi:
    There is no simple solution or quick answer to all your question.
    I'm getting you my answers as much as I can help you.

    Do I need to be concerned with the specs on the pump? ie. PSI generated, speed of impeller, etc.?

    You have to calculate the velocity of feet per second as you have different line sizes.
    To give you an example: Outside Diameter of your line 1.5 in., Inside Diameter 1.37 in., flow rate at 5 ft/sec. is 23 gall/min; at 10 ft/sec. your flow rate is 46 gall/min.


    What volume of solutions will I need to effectively clean the Uni's and the conditioning tanks?

    This depends on your pump size, tank size and flow rate, see above....
    Breweries have many different types of pumpes; centrifugal pump, liquid ring seal pump, rotary lobe pump, cavity pumps.
    I quote from: BREWING ENGINEERING AND PLANT OPERATION (MBAA)page 13:
    "A 1,725 rpm pump at its maximum efficiency point uses 0.5 hp to develop 20 feet of head and generate a flow of 20 gallons per minute (gpm). If the impeller speed is doubled to 3,450 rpm, conditions at maximum efficiency are:
    flow rate: 20 gpm X(3450/1750)1 = 20X2= 40 gpm
    head: 20 ft X (3450/1750)2 = 20x2SQUARED= 80 ft
    power: 0.5 hp X (3450/1750)3 = 0.5X23 = 4 hp.
    There are pump curves available where you see the forgoing exactly.

    How long can I reuse the "cleaning solution" and the "sanitizer" before disposing it?

    I don't think re-using cleaning and sanitation material is good for small Brewers, as we don't have the Lab set up to control this!

    Any need for a caustic solution?

    That depends on you build up in tanks, what type of build up etc.
    One item to keep in mind that caustics are strong corrosives that break down proteinaceous matter into a water soluble soil.
    Also, before deciding on the use of caustic, take a look at the type of surface you have, your water quality, AND temperature allowance.

    I hope the forgoing helps,

    Cheers,

    Fred Scheer

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi QCB,

      Fred is right on w/ the fact that very much of what you asked is dependent on the set up of your brewery. I can however say that it is possible to reuse PBW. You must however check the PH of the solution before each use and take special care to rinse thoroughly before each use. PBW for instance is a alkaline cleaner and heavy soil loads will raise the PH to a non-effective level. I have heard of people reusing Star-San in the same manner, but I would agree with Fred on this one for sure. Being a small brewery I would make a new batch of sanitizer every time. Maybe it is my own lack of experience, but it just helps me sleep at night when I know without question that the sanitizer is doing its job. For the effective PH range contact your chemical company rep and tell them exactly what your plan is and they will let you know what to keep an eye on.

      Another thing that caught my eye was the 180 degree PBW. I believe the recommended temp range is 120 to 150+-. I recently listened to an interview with a 5-Star rep were he stated that if PBW gets above 180 the chemical compounds would break down, or separate to be exact, rendering PBW not as effective.

      Don't be afraid to call the chem guy up and ask. These guys (and gals) know their product the best and are experienced with other brewer's operations.

      And remember that nothing beats just sticking your head in there and taking a look around. If it's not getting clean change your process. The key to cleaning is Time, Temp, and Concentration, and remember that you can't sanitize dirt.

      Cheers QCB, hope my thoughts helped,
      Good Luck!!!
      --
      Brandon Overstreet
      President, Co-Founder
      Swing Tree Brewing Company
      300 E. Hersey St. #7
      Ashland OR, 97520
      c. 541-591-8584
      boverstreet at swingtreebrewing.com
      www.SwingTreeBrewing.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Helpful info

        Thank you gentlemen for the helpful information, this is definitely a start to get me on my way. I certainly appreciate where you are coming from on this, every situation has its own peculiarities. My 2 biggest concerns to get started are this: How much volume of cleaner or sanitizer solution should I consider for use? When trying to build my "junkyard special" CIP system, I was hoping to get some point of reference on how large of a tank and recovery tank I will need. For a 15 BBL system and 15 BBL Uni, would 60 gallons of solution be appropriate or more like 125 gallons? My intentions were to build a CIP system with a 1.5 HP Centrifugal pump at 1750 RPM pushing through a 1.5 ID hose into the sprayball arms of each vessel and recovering into a receiver tank after completion. Are my estimates in the "ballpark" or way out of the realm from your experiences?
        The second concern involves time of contact. Will the contact from "sheeting" down the sides of a tank from the sprayball be sufficient in one pass, or should I recirc each solution a couple of times?

        Comment


        • #5
          You should check the manufacturer's recommendations for the cleaning products you are using. A quick glance at the 5-star instructions for PBW will tell you proper operating temperature and concentration for cleaning in a brewery. I'm pretty sure you can download them off of their website. You should have these on hand as well as MSDS sheets for every cleaner/acid/sanitizer you use.

          In my 7 bbl brewery I use PBW at 150 degrees F and recirculate through the sprayball for anywhere from 15-30 minutes depending on soil load (until the job is done!), and then recirc through the swing arm for 15 min.

          As far as the amount of solution needed, I once had a chemical rep tell me to use about 10% of the total volume of the tank (i.e. 15 gallons of solution for a 150 gallon tank). It's always worked for me, but I could see how that might be overkill on larger tanks.

          I would avoid using starsan for sprayball sanitizing. It's gonna foam like crazy and you'll have a hell of a time getting all that foam out of your tank. Try Iodaphor, activated Chlorine Dioxide or PAA instead. As far as re-use goes, I was told that starsan is fine to use as long as the solution appears clear. Once it gets hazy it's time to dump it. I use it in my clamps/gaskets bucket and I change it about once a week.

          Hope that helps...
          Hutch Kugeman
          Head Brewer
          Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
          Hyde Park, NY

          Comment


          • #6
            Another option for sanitizing is Sani-Clean from 5star. Same basic idea as Star-San but low foam.

            As far as volume needed i would use whatever concentration your cleaner requires and enough to fill your lines and maintain a resevoir to draw from at the bottom of you tanks. Our 30bbs (at the last job) required about 20-25 gallons to do this effectively.

            Mike
            Mike Pensinger
            General Manager/Brewmaster
            Parkway Brewing Company
            Salem, VA

            Comment


            • #7
              Unless you have "deep-pockets", just use the traditional method for your initial brews/CIP's and take notes. Please find attached pic of our Lauter Tun CIP, using external 1.5hp pump with 1.5 diameter triclamp hose and process piping.
              Found out, it was more effective using a portable pump than what the original system supplied, less H20 usage and heat up time. We also started using PBW because of the lower cleaning temp> As noted on the pic, the building temp dropped well below 40 degrees during winter, so heating tanks up used much more energy with the traditional SodiumHydroxide solutions. Much easier to get the tank to 120 than 180. Also, what is the length of the CIP loop you are going to have, and what kind of Spray Ball? I recommend a rotojet than the traditional wiffle ball design. Good luck and welcome to the brewing forum.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                The starting point is the diameter of the tank you are cleaning. Sprayballs are normally designed with a "throw" at typically 15 psi pressure differential at the sprayball.

                So the diameter of the vessel determines the size and position of the sprayball. The sprayball determines the flow rate and pressure required at the sprayball. The line diameter, distance and number of bends, valves etc detmines the pressure output required by the pump. So now you know what flow rate and pressure is required at the pump, so you can choose the pump. On a small setup, if you allow say 7 psi for pressure losses on the delivery, you will probably have allowed more than enough.

                System volume ? you calculate the pipeline supply and return volume, and allow for the CIP tank to contain not less than 40 % of the original so you get some mixing in, and prevent delivery pump cavitation

                If you use PAA sanitiser ad caustic - as Fred says, use only once.
                dick

                Comment

                Working...
                X