Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Designing/Installing lines from chiller to FVs

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Designing/Installing lines from chiller to FVs

    Hi all,
    We have received such incredibly helpful info from the community recently in our startup endeavors, we can not thank everyone enough. Hate to "dip into the well" continuously, but we have another question that is relatively important.

    We have (2) 15 BBL FV's w/single zone jackets that we need to pipe into our newly purchased chiller. We also have a small Plate HEX that we are using to chill tap water into our CLT. The chiller has a single process out at 1". We understand the need for a supply and return manifold to achieve 3 independant process loops controlled by individual temp controllers at each vessel. NO prob. BUT, we have heard many brewers indicate the headaches that solenoids seem to cause invariably over time and wanted some recent feedback from brewers. I believe Diamond Knot indicated that instead of using solenoids, he would recommend using motorized ball valves ( I think he said). Any thoughts? justifications?

    Also, should we install manual ball valves in the loop as an emergency cut-off should we need to replace the solenoids or motorized valves?

    Are the Chinese models of these offered by GW Kent worth the effort? I see a 1" motorized ball valve for $50 and solenoids for $79 whereas our chiller manufacturer quoted us $192 ea for the Asco RedHat solenoids.

    Finally, we are considering using Nitrile hose for the entire run from manifold to vessels and returns to final manifold. We understand that we should insulate with pipe wrap or foam wrap, would we be better served to use a hard piping in the vinyl family? cost is a consideration as always. Any input would be greatly appreciated. THX.
    Last edited by QueenCityBrew; 12-05-2008, 10:59 AM.

  • #2
    Questions

    We love your questions guys!
    They help everyone after you who come here looking for the same information.
    Cheers!
    Banjo Bandolas
    Probrewer.com
    v- 541-284-5500
    banjo@probrewer.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by banjo
      We love your questions guys!
      They help everyone after you who come here looking for the same information.
      Mr. Banjo is correct, ask away. You should use the search function first as I would guess every question has been answered many times and if you skip the search you may miss some great answers. Good info. here.
      Cheers & I'm out!
      David R. Pierce
      NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
      POB 343
      New Albany, IN 47151

      Comment


      • #4
        Cheers Queen City! I would not use 3 independent loops. Most breweries would install a loop manifold in 1" and then tap off of that in parallel for each application with a solenoid. Put a ball valve between the end of the supply header and the end of the return header. Throttle this valve to get about 15psi in the line when no solenoids are open. This keeps circulation in times of no cooling. I would choose copper or try the kool-fit stuff of other thread discussions. Something rigid, insulated and well supported. And yes, definitely put isolation valves off of the headers to allow working on the solenoids or jackets. Ball valves work well here, too. You will also want to put an air eliminator on the high points of your piping run to pack the pipes solid with coolant. A pressure gauge on the supply header to indicate pressure is invaluable for troubleshooting. I don't have problems with solenoids so long as you put a strainer in the chiller discharge line. Motorized ball valves will have their own set of problems. The ASCO Red Hats are the standard. They are usually "pilot operated", which means that they use a small orifice to pilot a larger diaphragm to open and to close. This orifice is what gets plastic pipe shavings, thread tape, etc caught up. Keep your coolant clean and you won't have this problem. Good luck. PM me if you need more help. Cheers!
        Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

        Comment


        • #5
          Ditto Ditto Ditto - Gitch has laid out things very well, no need to repeat. I will weigh in on the solenoids. We used Red Hats in our last system and only had one valve failure in 10 years. And yes, don't forget the strainers.

          Comment


          • #6
            I used the GW Kent solenoids with no problems the only issue is that they run on 24vdc so I had to add a seperate 24vdc power supply to feed them and the GW Kent temp controllers. They worked great and in two years I only had one coild go bad. The fix was simply ordering a new valve and swapping the coils.

            Mike Pensinger
            Mike Pensinger
            General Manager/Brewmaster
            Parkway Brewing Company
            Salem, VA

            Comment


            • #7
              We use 24v Red Hats and most are 12 years old. Our control panel came in @ 120v. so our electrician made a NEMA 4 box filled with 24v. transformers to drop the voltage. The transformers cost around $5. - 7.00 each.
              Cheers & I'm out!
              David R. Pierce
              NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
              POB 343
              New Albany, IN 47151

              Comment


              • #8
                "was simply ordering a new valve and swapping the coils."

                SWH Electric lets us buy the coils separately. Check with your local electric supply house. Our cost was cut in half. on the few we have had to replace.
                Joel Halbleib
                Partner / Zymurgist
                Hive and Barrel Meadery
                6302 Old La Grange Rd
                Crestwood, KY
                www.hiveandbarrel.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  www.kele.com has a lot of different kinds of valves.

                  The KVC zone valves have a good mix of price and quality. I would avoid the erie pop top valves.

                  The KVC actuators can be supplied in either two way (on/off) or modulating.

                  Valves are either 2 way or 3 way. One nice thing about these valves is that if you get the 3 way you don't have to decide if you need mixing or diverting valves. You either mix or divert based on how you install the valve. They can close against a 60 psi differential (should not be an issue in a brewery) and can actuate with a 0 psi differential, which is an issue with pilot operated solenoid valves.

                  One nice thing about a 3 way valve is that you can have a constant flow regardless of how much flow you are demanding.

                  They also close slowly so you don't get water hammer problems.
                  Johnson Thermal Systems
                  sales@johnsonthermal.com
                  Johnsonthermal.com
                  208.453.1000

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    glycol lines

                    Thanks again for all of the helpful suggestions. Has anyone had issues or problems associated with running the Nitrile hose from Goodyear from the headers to the jackets on the FVs? Any "guidelines" or pitfalls to look out for on these short runs? The hose is jacketed on its own, but should we put some split foam insulation around the hose also?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hooray for Jim V

                      WOW!! I was fortunate enough to meet Jimmy V (not the bball coach) today as he was passing through the Carolinas. What a wealth of knowledge and such an incredibly nice dude. He provided a rough layout, product requirements list, supplier's info, and glycol 101 class for me on the fly, just because he was cool like that, not because he was selling a chiller. Can't say enough of the BIG THANK YOUs to Jim V for helping me out with this part of the project. Nice to meet the guy that posts so much information on the Forum for us newbies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by QueenCityBrew
                        WOW!! I was fortunate enough to meet Jimmy V (not the bball coach) today as he was passing through the Carolinas. What a wealth of knowledge and such an incredibly nice dude. He provided a rough layout, product requirements list, supplier's info, and glycol 101 class for me on the fly, just because he was cool like that, not because he was selling a chiller. Can't say enough of the BIG THANK YOUs to Jim V for helping me out with this part of the project. Nice to meet the guy that posts so much information on the Forum for us newbies.
                        Dude answers his cell phone at all hours of the night too. Service after the sale is nothing short of awesome!
                        Cheers & I'm out!
                        David R. Pierce
                        NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
                        POB 343
                        New Albany, IN 47151

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X