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farmviking
12-11-2008, 06:08 PM
HI, I'm a noob who's working on a brewpub business plan. One thing I'm having a difficult time calculating is the *average/ballpark* cost per batch for a 7bbl and 10bbl set up. I know there are economies of scale and differing costs to ingredients, but I figure I can get a couple guesstimates to start with- like for an 'average' pale ale. I know that just multiplying my homebrew batch cost up would not be very accurate...Thanks for any help you vets can offer!

jwalts
12-12-2008, 07:37 AM
Hey Farmviking, I see that you just joined the forum this month. Welcome! I don't know if this particular topic has been discussed, but doing a search of the forums will often answer your questions. The reason I'm bringing it up is because I've posted several entries that direct people here:

http://jwalts.googlepages.com/

I'm in the same boat as you - trying to open a brewpub - but I've brewed professionally for a few years, so hopefully that gives my advice a little bit of credibility. If you follow the 'Business Planning' link, you can download my financial projections spreadsheet. By plugging data from the 'Ingredients' tab into the 'Brewery' tab, you can estimate the expenses of different types of beers. Pale ale is probably not the best example because hopping quantities vary so widely, but here goes. I'm planning for a 7-bbl batch of pale ale to cost about $577 in ingredients, which assumes organic malt prices and non-organic hop prices (good luck finding prices for organic hops). If I add in my estimates for chemicals, utilities, repairs/maintenance and taxes, the expense becomes about $720. Adding labor results in a batch price of $1140; I assumed $60/bbl, which isn't used in my actual projections because I'm going to pay myself a flat rate for both brewing the beer and having tons of non-brewing responsibilities. For a ten-barrel batch, the expenses become $826, $1031 and $1631 respectively. All I did to get those numbers was change the batch size in the spreadsheet. Reformulating the recipes would probably be more insightful, but I don't think the results would change very much. The more important questions address how different batch sizes will affect your capital costs and operation. Ten-barrel batches will give you more free time, but will they take too long to sell? Four ten-barrel fermenters would probably cost less than six seven-barrel fermenters, but would they force you to reduce the size of your tap list?

In general, I'm documenting my startup process so the info can be used as a resource for future brewery owners. I expect the info will be much more useful once I'm able to apply hindsight to it. Yes, I'll eventually move it all to a proper website.

Joe

Gordie
12-12-2008, 10:07 AM
I only looked at it for a second, but - crikey - nice job Joe. And thanks for sharing!

South County
12-12-2008, 12:22 PM
Yeah JWalts, great job, good info!

farmviking
12-13-2008, 12:30 PM
Really, really great info! I definitely plan to keep up with your progress-
You're doing a great thing.
Thanks Joe!
farmviking

jwalts
12-13-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm glad it's helpful - thanks for the encouragement!

Joe

osobrewing
12-15-2008, 01:29 PM
O'so Brewing here from Plover. If your sheets are any indicator of your beer quality, you will do well. Look us up sometime, and if you're in the neighborhood, come see us.

Marc

Good Brewing!!

RocketRepublic
12-16-2008, 06:22 AM
Wow, your attention to detail is incredible. :eek:

ibrewforyou
03-02-2009, 05:07 PM
i am wondering about some other issues on cost per batch....
(looking at it from the viewpoint of what it costs my boss)
we know the amount of grain and hops from the recipe and can calculate that easily.
next would be the yeast-are we buying pitchable, propping it ourselves, or repitching...another easy thing to figure out.
brewer labor from cleaning and sanitizing fermenters and brite tanks before and after the brewing, filtering and transfering, and the actual brewing.
chemicals used up during the whole process.

what i don't know much about is factoring in the cost of water and heat/steam.
is there a general rule of thumb on the cost of water ($/gallon) and how do you go about getting an approximation of the cost of running a steam boiler for a steam based brewhouse?

jwalts
03-05-2009, 06:52 AM
The JV Northwest brewing website has some typical energy consumption figures:

http://www.jvnw.com/brewing.html

A boiler, which normally consumes either natural gas or electricity, should be included in one of those numbers. The Brewers Association's packaging breweries survey reports a generalized utilities expense as well, which you can see on this forum thread:

http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13212.

I like using broad industry data better than trying to add up the operating costs of each piece of equipment. It'll take a lot less time and the numbers should be reasonably close, even though they're vague. The margins of error on calculating individual expenses that you're not intimately familiar with can be huge.

Joe

Backrowbaptist
06-18-2016, 11:01 AM
Hey Farmviking, I see that you just joined the forum this month. Welcome! I don't know if this particular topic has been discussed, but doing a search of the forums will often answer your questions. The reason I'm bringing it up is because I've posted several entries that direct people here:

http://jwalts.googlepages.com/

I'm in the same boat as you - trying to open a brewpub - but I've brewed professionally for a few years, so hopefully that gives my advice a little bit of credibility. If you follow the 'Business Planning' link, you can download my financial projections spreadsheet. By plugging data from the 'Ingredients' tab into the 'Brewery' tab, you can estimate the expenses of different types of beers. Pale ale is probably not the best example because hopping quantities vary so widely, but here goes. I'm planning for a 7-bbl batch of pale ale to cost about $577 in ingredients, which assumes organic malt prices and non-organic hop prices (good luck finding prices for organic hops). If I add in my estimates for chemicals, utilities, repairs/maintenance and taxes, the expense becomes about $720. Adding labor results in a batch price of $1140; I assumed $60/bbl, which isn't used in my actual projections because I'm going to pay myself a flat rate for both brewing the beer and having tons of non-brewing responsibilities. For a ten-barrel batch, the expenses become $826, $1031 and $1631 respectively. All I did to get those numbers was change the batch size in the spreadsheet. Reformulating the recipes would probably be more insightful, but I don't think the results would change very much. The more important questions address how different batch sizes will affect your capital costs and operation. Ten-barrel batches will give you more free time, but will they take too long to sell? Four ten-barrel fermenters would probably cost less than six seven-barrel fermenters, but would they force you to reduce the size of your tap list?

In general, I'm documenting my startup process so the info can be used as a resource for future brewery owners. I expect the info will be much more useful once I'm able to apply hindsight to it. Yes, I'll eventually move it all to a proper website.

Joe

Joe,

Your link is not active. I would love to be able to use this spreadsheet with your permission for my business plan. Could you reactivate the page?

Andy
Back Row Baptist Brewing

jwalts
06-18-2016, 11:32 AM
Google stopped supporting those pages a long time ago, so my files have been here for a while:

https://sites.google.com/site/republicbrewpub/

Joe

tirouj
01-30-2018, 06:39 PM
Google stopped supporting those pages a long time ago, so my files have been here for a while:

https://sites.google.com/site/republicbrewpub/

Joe

Joe,
Hello! I am not sure if you are still active on here. I would like to take a look at your spreadsheet for a new microbrewery project I am working on. I am hoping you can point me in the right direction. I don't see a link to "Business Plan" but I see the "Financial Model" link, the Financial Model excel sheet has a brewery tab but I don't see an "ingredient" link. I know it has been a couple of year since the last post, just wondering if you could still point me in the right direction. I am trying to come with the cost and sales for four different types of beer. Thanks so much.

jwalts
01-31-2018, 07:03 PM
Hey tirouj,

The business plan is there, and the file name is BP_RePublic_Shared. The "Ingredients" tab was basically just a bunch of ingredient prices, and I got rid of it a long time ago because it was outdated (all of my financial assumptions are outdated at this point because I haven't revised them in years, but the ingredient prices were especially misleading). A better option than my old ingredient prices would be to contact a few suppliers and ask them for their latest price lists.

I hope this helps!

Joe

BLBC
02-12-2018, 05:40 AM
Hey tirouj,

The business plan is there, and the file name is BP_RePublic_Shared. The "Ingredients" tab was basically just a bunch of ingredient prices, and I got rid of it a long time ago because it was outdated (all of my financial assumptions are outdated at this point because I haven't revised them in years, but the ingredient prices were especially misleading). A better option than my old ingredient prices would be to contact a few suppliers and ask them for their latest price lists.

I hope this helps!

Joe

Joe,

Whatever happened to your brewpub? Did it ever get off the ground? If not, why?

I lived in Waunakee from 2009-2013 and played hockey in Sun Prairie. Loved living there and still miss it. After starting my brewing life in 2010 (in Madison), I'm considering opening a brewpub of my own, here in Rockford, MI. Any other advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

Robb

jwalts
02-12-2018, 10:49 AM
Hey Robb,

I grew up in Michigan (Farmington Hills), and I probably skate with some of the guys you played hockey with in Sun Prairie. Small world!

I never got the brewpub going, and it was a simple matter of not being able to raise enough money. With two small kids, a Monday-Friday daytime job, and being able to check "work as a head brewer" off my list a few years ago, I'm at peace with it not working out.

I think there's still a market for new brewpubs in under-served areas, so you're already following what would be my biggest piece of advice: don't open a distributing brewery! After almost 13 years in the industry, the craft beer hype machine makes less sense to me than it ever has - and I wouldn't roll the dice on a new brewery catching fire in a crowded market unless my concept was both approachable and unquestionably unique.

Joe

BLBC
02-12-2018, 11:11 AM
Hey Robb,

I grew up in Michigan (Farmington Hills), and I probably skate with some of the guys you played hockey with in Sun Prairie. Small world!

I never got the brewpub going, and it was a simple matter of not being able to raise enough money. With two small kids, a Monday-Friday daytime job, and being able to check "work as a head brewer" off my list a few years ago, I'm at peace with it not working out.

I think there's still a market for new brewpubs in under-served areas, so you're already following what would be my biggest piece of advice: don't open a distributing brewery! After almost 13 years in the industry, the craft beer hype machine makes less sense to me than it ever has - and I wouldn't roll the dice on a new brewery catching fire in a crowded market unless my concept was both approachable and unquestionably unique.

Joe

Joe,

I agree 100% with the distribution thing. As I walk into most beer stores, I am immediately overwhelmed by the number of craft brews on the shelves. That and the fact that they usually seem to taste better when you are right at the brewery drinking them.

b_carn
02-18-2018, 03:06 PM
Hey Robb,

I grew up in Michigan (Farmington Hills), and I probably skate with some of the guys you played hockey with in Sun Prairie. Small world!

I never got the brewpub going, and it was a simple matter of not being able to raise enough money. With two small kids, a Monday-Friday daytime job, and being able to check "work as a head brewer" off my list a few years ago, I'm at peace with it not working out.

I think there's still a market for new brewpubs in under-served areas, so you're already following what would be my biggest piece of advice: don't open a distributing brewery! After almost 13 years in the industry, the craft beer hype machine makes less sense to me than it ever has - and I wouldn't roll the dice on a new brewery catching fire in a crowded market unless my concept was both approachable and unquestionably unique.

Joe

Joe -

Just stumbled on this thread and your website... top notch stuff and as someone in the planning stages I want to say "thank you" for making these awesome resources available.

I grew up in West Bloomfield and live in Royal Oak now, small world. Sorry things didn't work out for your plan, but it looks like you were as prepared as anyone could be.

Brian