Single-Reservoir Keg Washer -- what do you put in it?

[Woolsocks]

In an ideal world, you clean most things with caustic and then with acid, right? If you're like me, and can only hit your kegs with one chemical when you're cleaning them, what chemical is it?

We've been using hot (80°C) caustic spiked with bleach, counting on it for both cleaning and sanitizing, but I think maybe every other or every third time or so we should use hot acid instead for beerstone. What do you do?

[GlacierBrewing]

I would hit them with a caustic of some sort, drain the reservoir, and refill it with a sanitizer. I'd be cautious about relying on a caustic bleach mixture. I've never used that combo but I'd be nervous about getting all the caustic residue out unless I followed it with an acid. Also, I would have concerns about continued bleach contact damaging surfaces.
my two cents.....
Prost!
Dave

[drewseslu]

It would definitely be worth your while to do at least two cycles. Caustic and rinse followed by sanitizer/CO2 cycle.

[nohandslance]

I use a Sodium Hydroxide wash then a 200degree hot H2O rinse with Co2 purge, an Acid #5 wash on it after it comes back from the market every third time.

Lance
Rebel Malting
Reno, NV USA

[JoeV]

acid

There was recently a article in "New Brewer" suggesting using nitric/phosphoric acid blend with detergent additive (Birko Puma X). Sounds interesting. Sanitize too...just do two phases wash then sanitize.

[Woolsocks]

Does anyone have info/source on Puma X? Can't find much on birko's website.

[Moonlight]

At the pH of caustic, chlorine is not effective as a sanitizer. Absolutely useless.
It is added to help attack and loosen up the tough gunk.

[oppigards]

Caustic / clorine

Hello

I must say I am getting a bit confused. We have used a chemical that is a mix of caustic and clorine as a one step cleaning and santitizing agent. When cleaning dirty tanks, we do it two times to get a sanitazing effect. When cleaning kegs we use just a stronger solution, due to the very short contact time. Temperature is 60 deg Cel. The only problem I have heared of with clorine is that it is aggresive to stainless steel. FOr that reason we plan to switch to a two step cleaning / sanitation with caustic and peracetic acid as the ordinary cleaning regime, and periodicly use a acid cleaning every forth week.

[JoeV]

Puma X

I actually had to call Birko to get the info. From the Birko web site:

MBAA Technical Session
- Cleaning Kegs with Acid and Detergent Only –
A report on a new cost-saving method designed by BIRKO
for Avery Brewing in Boulder, Colorado.

Birko said I could add it to my existing nitric/phosphoric acid cleaner.

You would still need to sanitize though. Even though the acid "sanitizes" it cant do it at the same time its cleaning. And you need to rinse Nitric acid off so it doesn't make a lot of sense for sanitizing unless you are rinsing with sterile water.

[Woolsocks]

You would still need to sanitize though. Even though the acid "sanitizes" it cant do it at the same time its cleaning. And you need to rinse Nitric acid off so it doesn't make a lot of sense for sanitizing unless you are rinsing with sterile water.

For a reason I won't go into, we rinse with hot tap water (from the water heater). I've always figured that since regular tap water is *reasonably* sanitary, hot water must be *very* sanitary. Opinions?

[Alex T]

Hey,

I'm assuming you don't have steam on this set-up(?). So I would do perhaps a KOH detergent at 80degC, followed by a hot rinse at 80degC to remove detergent and (somewhat) sterilise. If you don't have steam, I would put the kegs through a PAA cycle after. Hot water is good for sterilising, but steam is more towards absolute, so if no steam, gotta do something more.....

Alex

[BeersmithMT]

Woolsocks,

We also have a single reservoir washer and have successfully been using a single cleaning product. We clean with Five Star Acid Cleaner #6 (a blend of nitric, phophoric, and detergent) and then sanitize/burst rinse (3x) with 185F water, and purge kegs with CO2. I realize that an alkalai cleaner, followed by a chemical sanitizer may be ideal, however, our system works for us, not one single contamination problem in the 4 years of using this system.

[Jephro]

The only problem I have heared of with clorine is that it is aggresive to stainless steel.

I do believe most chlorinated alkaline cleaners are safe on stainless, at least the ones i have used, check with your supplier. Bleach on the other hand WILL pit and destroy stainless over time. IMO bleach should not not even be in the brewery, unless you are cleaning floors.

..and don't forget about the benefits of phos/nitric keeping beer stone at bay.

[wildcrafter]

If you really want to ruin all of your stainless, just mop the floors with muriatic acid and leave the vapors in the room.

[Justin Dalton]

Hey,
we use caustic to clean then use extreemly hot (100c) h20 to rinse and sanitize. This removes all residue. Then just charge w/co2 and let them cool down to avoid hot break in the kegs. This has been very efective for me.
cheers
Justin