Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Anything new in floor coating(s)?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anything new in floor coating(s)?

    I have a freshly poured floor that's nearing its fully cured stage and am wondering if anybody has discovered/used something "new" for a bomb-proof floor coating? I've searched the forums and have input from there, just wondering if there's been any new/improved coatings for virgin concrete.
    As an asides, has anyone used the oil-based Zinsser waterproofing for cement wall coating in high contact (acids, caustics, hot, hot hot...) areas? Seems like it'd be the ticket but not sure of real world results in a brewery.

    Farmer Dave
    Last edited by BeerBoy; 02-11-2009, 07:48 AM.

  • #2
    flooring

    Farmer Dave-

    We have just finished installing a new flooring system. We went with SikaFloor PureCem 22N on the production areas and Novalak epoxy(which is chemical resistant) in our trench drains. They are finishing the top coat today, so we are not able to move equipment in until Monday. I am told this stuff is pretty bomb proof, as it is a 3 part urethane cement. It is, however, pricey. The floor is about $8.50/ sq. ft. and the epoxy is about $7.50/ sq.ft. It also has to be installed by certified companies in order to maintain its warranty. It is our hope that this floor is a one time deal and we never have to think about it again. I'd be happy to forward any additional information you may need.

    Justin
    Head Brewer
    Red Lodge Ales Brewing Co.
    Red Lodge, MT
    Justin Moore
    Head Brewer of Good Times
    Red Lodge Ales Brewing Co.
    Red Lodge, MT 59068

    Comment


    • #3
      Dave, I would agree with Justin. Last year we installed a new concrete urethane floor system in our bottling and production area. What makes this floor unique is it's abilities to withstand impact and chemical exposure. I would strongly recommend using this flooring system vs. acrylic or epoxy. The cost is a bit higher, but I am sure during this downturn any professional is willing to cut a deal to do the job correct. Think of the long term investment vs. cost savings you don't want to be replacing your floor every 5 to 10 years.

      Chris

      Comment


      • #4
        Stonehard is an impressive brand. Saw a demonstration at a Master Brewers meeting years ago.
        Last edited by Ted Briggs; 02-16-2009, 09:28 AM.
        Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
        tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
        "Your results may vary"

        Comment


        • #5
          Does anyone use bare concrete any longer? I've been in several breweries that had simple concrete floors that worked just fine. Granted that often this concrete was quite old (and durable), but it seems that for ease of use & repair that concrete would still find some favor.
          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

          Comment


          • #6
            My first post here! I am definitely not a pro brewer, though I daydream about it all the time. However, I work as a chemist for our state transportation agency and my areas of specialty are cement/concrete and coatings.

            First, unless your brewery is extremely small you really don't want a bare concrete floor if you can afford to not have one (I know some people can't). Everything in a brewery except caustic is bad for concrete. I was at a medium sized brewery here in VT last year that had 7 year old bare concrete floors in horrible shape - loose aggregate washing down the drains, etc. They can certainly afford good coatings, they apparently just don't know better.

            The gold standard for concrete coatings has been epoxy for a long time, but that is beginning to change now with some of the new polyurethane coatings. You do want an expert installer. The high moisture content of concrete can sometimes cause adhesion problems, especially with moisture curing polyurethanes. I would check with local contractors and find someone with specific foodservice experience whose references check out. You want a pro to do this, but if you do decide to DIY, go with epoxy; your chances of success are greater. Get the floor extremely clean and dry, roughen it a bit and apply carefully as you don't have much opportunity to correct mistakes. Some systems consist of a concrete-friendly primer that is overlaid with epoxy or polyurethane. Great if you can afford it.

            Edit: Let your floor cure at least 14 days before coating; 28 is better.
            Last edited by jerrymcmahan; 02-19-2009, 05:20 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              pps: Do not use an oil based paint over bare concrete. The alkalinity of the concrete will saponify the oil and adhesion will be poor.

              Comment


              • #8
                A couple of thoughts from my experience

                Epoxy is fine for most uses, but it doesn't like heavy objects being dropped on it, (no there's a surprise), and doesn't like caustic, particularly hot caustic being run on it. So if you are intending using it in drains, then I sugest that you use some sort of trough to direct the CIP straight into the stainless or plastic drain pipes. It also has a bit of a habit of cracking on large slab areas as the concrete underneath develops hairline cracks, presumably as it dries out initially. Then water etc gets under the epoxy, and it starts to lift. But thick tiled floors aren't much better as there is so much grouting. I think the key is to have what most peple would consider steep falls on the floors, to ensure complete draining

                Cheers
                dick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Our concrete is five years old. All we did was coat it with J17 from Dayton Chemicals, and it is holding up well. The only areas I am concerned about is right around our trench drains.

                  What we try to do is use dump hoses from the tank directly to the drain. There's less mess, no heat stress or caustic or acid dumping directly on concrete. Then after you've dumped the caustic or acid to the drain, disconnect the hose and rinse the tank directly to the floor.
                  Linus Hall
                  Yazoo Brewing
                  Nashville, TN
                  www.yazoobrew.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The J17 is a great sealer/coating for concrete, I used to use it on Public works projects to seal County shop floors and such. It however doesn't like acid and heat as lhall has stated.

                    The biggest problem with bare concrete, sealed or not, is the thermo shock action in the brewery. Expansion and contraction lead to cracking and failure of the top layer of cement. It will fail-just add time!

                    I've used bare concrete, an epo-flex epoxy coating, and currently quarry tile as brewery flooring. The quarry tile (with epoxy grout) has held up the best so far. The only problem so far is a slight discoloration in the traffic/work areas. As stated previously in this thread, heavy blunt object impact shoud be avoided!
                    Insist on a minum of 3/8-1/2" per foot of slope.

                    Good Luck!
                    Cheers,

                    Brian Ford
                    Auburn Alehouse
                    brewmaster@auburnalehouse.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Stonhard bid

                      Just had my bid from Stonhard which camr reccommended a few posts ago. Admitted this is not a large job, but, if we produce the floor slope to a channel drain wuth a cementitious or similar screed, they will top finish, BUT it is quoted at $28.50 per Sq Ft! If they prepare the slope to drain for us ,
                      $50 Sq Ft.! Is this the real world? I like the sound of Linus's J17 anybody else with experiences of this coating?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gitchegumee
                        Does anyone use bare concrete any longer? I've been in several breweries that had simple concrete floors that worked just fine. Granted that often this concrete was quite old (and durable), but it seems that for ease of use & repair that concrete would still find some favor.
                        Bit of a side note here: CONGRATULATIONS Gitchegumee on your 500th posting!!!!!


                        (hey, lookie there! This is mine as well!!! WOO HOO)

                        Prost!
                        Dave
                        Glacier Brewing Company
                        406-883-2595
                        info@glacierbrewing.com

                        "who said what now?"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey,

                          We have been using this "Ucrete" application for a while now. Seems very good for our busy little brewery. You need to specify your coating thickness (I think we have used 6mm?) and give other specs like temp, chemicals, etc. The stuff is impact resistant. Any place we have used epoxy just gets chipped and peels off within days. We actually put in a keg line once with epoxy on the floor and the steam vent actually peeled the epoxy off after a matter of seconds.....

                          But no matter which product you choose, you need to ensure that a good tradesman (or yourself?) applies it by the book - a great coating system will not work if applied incorrectly.

                          Cheers,

                          Alex

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Glacier! The same back at you! Anyhow, I'm confused about those of you that deal with thermal shock issues; what are you pouring on your floor? Hot trub? My kettle has a drain to our trough, and if it didn't then I'd hose it there. Acids? Do you just dump your cleaning chemicals on the floor? Don't take the time to either reuse it, or at least hose it to a drain? I don't think I run a brewery any cleaner than anyone else, but it sounds like floors are sometimes used as drains. The only time I even need sloped floors is when I spray down the whole place with quat. Other than that, liquid contact with my floors is incidental. Others have different protocol? Just curious here with all this talk about floor abuse.
                            Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X