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  • Saison Ideas

    I have been reading previous posts about Saison. I just got some Saison Yeast today from a microbrewery. I am going to make a 10bbl batch and am very worried about doing this. The temp, grain bill and temp etc. Never made one. Just looking for ideas and suggestions. Thanks

  • #2
    General rules of thumb (amongst very experienced homebrewers is to start it in the low to mid 60s. Allow yeast activity to take the temp up. It will probably get to the mid-70s. As krausen just b arely begins to start falling, begin to ramp up the temp about 2F per day to keep the yeast active. You should get to about 85F.
    In addition, most Saison yeasts take quite a long time to finish. figure it will take 4-6 weeks in primary to get the attenuation you want for a good, true Saison dryness.
    In my particular experience, I have added the White Labs Super high Gravity yeast to a Saison that would not finish quite as low as I wanted. After adding that, it was quite good. Before adding that yeast, my 16P Saison was "stuck" at 4.5P. After adding the SHG yeast, it dropped to 2P.
    Drinking it now, and it is quite good!
    -Lyle C. Brown
    Brewer
    Camelot Brewing Co.

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    • #3
      What strain did you pick up? If it WY3724 or WL565, they have a tendancy to stall out. But the more recent releases like 3726 and 3711 from WY and 566 from WL don't seem to have this problem and will attenuate out just fine.
      Be sure to mash low and if you're looking at a bigger saison then sugar helps, as well.
      I just put a saison on tap on Wednesday and started it at 68dF for a day, 72dF for a day, then just let it ramp up from there, it got to about 78dF. It started at 14.3 and finished with 6.4% ABV, I fermented in my house Belgian yeast culture, and the ramping temperature gave it more farmhouse character than I get from keeping it cooler for the Wit and Dubbel.
      Fighting ignorance and apathy since 2004.

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      • #4
        I used the WL 565, and agree with your assessment, hence my use of the WLP 099.
        I have not tried the 566, but have heard similar good reports. I am looking forward to trying it at Battlefield!
        -Lyle C. Brown
        Brewer
        Camelot Brewing Co.

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        • #5
          Well. I kind of need to have this beer relativelysoon. It's not essential that it's a true Saison. I think I will blend it with some 1056 to insure a decent T.G.. Also, I'll ferment it at 70 degrees. Any thaughts?

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          • #6
            Seems to me that 70 is low enough to not get excessive esters from the 1056...although it is also low enough you may miss some of the esters that make a Saison standout. It will likely finish pretty low between those two yeasts.

            I'd be interested in hearing how it comes out!
            -Lyle C. Brown
            Brewer
            Camelot Brewing Co.

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            • #7
              How much ester will the Saison yeast provide? I'm concerned that the 56 will dominate.

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              • #8
                In my experience, Saison yeast should be started about 68-70F. Let the temperture naturally ramp up, and it will probably reach 75-78F. As the activity first starts to subside, begin to ramp the temperature up a little more to keep the yeast going. Top out around 85F.

                For your mix, I would not want to go much higher than 70F with the 1056, or IMHO, you will get some different fruit esters from a standard Saison (more British like than Belgian/French like). You would probably get away with 72F just fine.

                If you are looking for a faster way to finish the beer, I would suggest letting the Saison yeast do its thing for 5-7 days, following the tempertures above. When you are ready to finish it, and dry it out, chilll back down to 68-70F, then add an ACTIVE culture of 1056. The reason to make sure the new culture is active, is to ensure the yeast continues working in stead of going into shock from the alcohol in the beer. Let it finish as you would a normal ale. I think that should get you some good Saison esters, and dry the beer out faster without excessive 1056 esters.

                Caveate: I have not tried this myself, but having made a few Saisons, this is how I would go about what you are trying to do.
                -Lyle C. Brown
                Brewer
                Camelot Brewing Co.

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                • #9
                  I will reiterate: mash low. Ferment high

                  You want a dry, yet fruity/estery beer

                  Real Saison strains won't give you phenols even at 31c (85F?) We brew 5 different Saisons with 3 different strains and all of them finish way under 2 Plato, except maybe our Triple Saison at around 3P and that's because we want it to stop there.

                  Forget about the 1056! Get a life! (I guess I should put a smiley here, but then again, it's true! a Saison needs a Saison strain, there's no way you can work around this.) Not any Belgian strain. Saison yeast.

                  And I don't see why it would take more than 10 days for a Saison to ferment.

                  Santé!

                  Zb

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                  • #10
                    Just want the beer to dry out. Adding 56 would have been a precaution. Didn't do it. Im at 6 p now all Saison yeast starting at 15P in 4 days. Smells like Saison.

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                    • #11
                      Here are a few thoughts that have worked in the past....

                      Grist:
                      80% pils
                      5% flaked barley
                      15% sucrose (mix with a little wort, then into kettle)

                      Hop bill:
                      Something neutral like Galena for bittering

                      Styrian Goldings for flavor and aroma

                      Yeast: Wyeast 3711 PC French Saison
                      Start at 63-65F Let it rise. Condition

                      SG 1.065
                      FG 1.002

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                      • #12
                        OK It's at 79 D and 4.6 P (From 15 P in 5 days) and still going. I'm feeling better. An suggestions on when to crah this? I really don't want it too dry, But it seems that it's on it's wayto being a nice Saison. Very estery, alsmost a Lambic aroma going on. My concern here is the marketability of this beer in a pub like one I have.

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