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  • Lacto Beers

    I'm wondering what other brewers do about kegging beers brewed with lactobacillus. Do you sterile filter out the bugs? If so, how do you deal with the tanks afterward? If I decide to keeps the bugs in the beer what is the ethics of having critters in a draft product? Meaning what issues are there for the people pouring these beers in terms of their draft lines.

  • #2
    Unless you're dealing with a pub where this sort of product is understood completely and welcomed eagerly, delivering a keg full of live bacteria would certainly qualify as a hostile act.

    Consider the path of least resistance. If you don't normally filter, why start? It's a troublesome and time-consuming (hence expensive) procedure. You also have to consider the impact of sterile filtering on flavour, even if you do filter now. Running all your beer through a sterile filter....hmm. Not my idea of a treat.

    What I do might or might not work for you. Brew soured wort in a separate process, then draw appropriate quantities for blending, pasteurise that portion only, and blend. Feed the critters gyle and they'll keep going, sort of like the Orleans method. You do have to dilute with gyle periodically as they will stop working when the pH falls to a certain point, variable according to genus and species.

    The advantages are: 1, You never introduce live bacteria to your main kit, so no possibility of infection. 2, You pasteurise only the sour component so there is far less negative impact on flavour. 3, It's fun.

    The disadvantages are: 1, You maintain the sour wort so there is always enough of a sufficiently-low pH to blend with -- this requires some experience, "dialing in" etc. 2, It's a continuous process that needs temperature control, so a bit of an expense there. 3, Lacto is susceptible to yeast infection, actually more so than yeast is susceptible to lacto infection. The reason is that yeast can handle hop acids, which keep gram-positive bacteria (lacto is one) at bay. Lacto needs a hop rate at or below 10 IBU or it gets crippled, so its only defense is the low pH, which yeast, of course, don't mind. You have to be very careful to avoid an infection.

    If you don't mind fruitiness and a slightly different acid flavour profile, brett is easier to keep safe, as you have the low pH plus you can hop the hell out of the gyle that you feed it, which together repels a lot of competitors. But that's a separate discussion, as there are issues with brett, such as its need for constant, small amounts of oxygen to make acid, its seeming indestructibility, its tendency to produce fruity esters and hideous-tasting compounds unless treated right, etc.

    Hope this helps.

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    • #3
      sour on sour?

      wiredgourmet, you hardly seem sour on sour beer. You are generous in sharing your experience and what some would consider secrets. However, I am not clear on your listed disadvantage #1.
      Originally posted by wiredgourmet
      The disadvantages are: 1, You maintain the sour wort so there is always enough of a sufficiently-low pH to blend with -- this requires some experience, "dialing in" etc.
      Is the disadvantage that you list first the fact that you have to acquire experience (therefore invest time/money/energy), or the maintenance involved with keeping a suitable quantity of lacto-beer or ???

      I hope you don't mind me asking but how do you package and for what conditions? Do you keg? Bottle? Is the final package kept cold or allowed warm storage?

      Thank you very much for shedding light on such a murky subject!

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      • #4
        Canyon, I say it's complicated because you need to learn how long the bugs take to reach x pH at x temp with x gravity wort, and this can vary considerably according to genus, species, strain.

        You don't want to run out of sour wort when you need it, yet you also don't want a vast supply tying up resources. You just have to develop an instinct for it so that you'll have a smooth, predictable process.

        It's definitely not a lot of trouble to maintain; you monitor the pH more than any other feature. That's key because your blending ratio needs to be consistent or you'll get into difficulties with flavour and body fluctuating on you in the final product.

        In short, you just need to be on a first-name basis with the bugs you are using, and this involves time, effort, and the occasional, undrinkable, "learning experience". All part of the game, of course.

        There are three basic approaches: co-fermentation with sacchro; secondary fermentation, and blending. Which one is best really depends on your facilities, budget, and the effects you are looking for.

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