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  • Questions on peracetic acid

    Have some questions for those familiar with peracetic acid. We got a 5 gal container of it and the rep said the dosage was 1.6 - 1.9 oz per 5 gallons. Does that sound right?

    I wanted to try it in the sani buckets but is this also a good sanitizer to use in spray bottles for connections and the sani cycle in a keg washer?

  • #2
    Hey Pete!
    I've had a little experience working with PA, and if you have a titration kit of some sort you could dose to the strength you require. Depending on the % of acting agent the suggested dosing could be fine, but I've used less with a fairly concentrated form and had no problems.
    I've only used peracetic to sanitize tanks, and I'm not sure what your kegwasher set-up is like so I'm hesitant to give any advice on that. Hopefully you have some sort of metering system as I've run POS kegwashers that drained out the acid almost immediately (via a leak in the line). I'm not sure what you're paying for PA, but I bet you don't want to use more than necessary.
    Just make sure your eyes are covered well, as I had an incident where a hose came loose and splashed some over my safety glasses! Luckily I only needed a half hour under an eyewash station and I was alright.
    Good luck!

    S.Brewer

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    • #3
      Paa

      Well it depends on the initial product concentration...your rep is recommending a 0.3% PAA solution. Go for it. I sometimes go up to 0.5% for peace of mind. Depends on your application. Keep in mind it will foam on you if too strong. As to sani buckets. I personally opt for Iodine or glutaraldehyde or Oxine. For spray bottles just use rubbing or normal alcohol from the supermarket (at least 70%).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sulfur
        Well it depends on the initial product concentration...your rep is recommending a 0.3% PAA solution. Go for it. I sometimes go up to 0.5% for peace of mind.
        Close, but that calculation assumes an impossible 100% PAA solution. Normal solutions that we can get our hands on as brewers range from 5-15% Peracetic, the rest normally being acetic acid, h2o2, and water. Depending on which you have you can be using up to 3 times the amount of PAA to get the same final concentration in your rinse.

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        • #5
          recommendations

          Originally posted by gabewilson50
          Close, but that calculation assumes an impossible 100% PAA solution. Normal solutions that we can get our hands on as brewers range from 5-15% Peracetic, the rest normally being acetic acid, h2o2, and water. Depending on which you have you can be using up to 3 times the amount of PAA to get the same final concentration in your rinse.
          Well it's not that complicated. If the rep recommends a 0.3% solution of his solution then follow the advice. Technically you're right in that it is not 0.3% PAA but 0.3% of the initial solution. It all depends on the start solution and hence the reps recommendations. Me, being extra cautious when sanitizing a fermenter, will sometimes go a little higher in dosage as mentioned above....

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          • #6
            I have always used 150 to 250 ppm - of peractic acid, So if you have to calculate out from the original concentration to get say 200 ppm of the active ingredient, not of the original solution. And some PAA solutions don't require usage at that high rate due to the additives. So just use at the recommended rate, and assume pretty much single use unless at zero C, in which case the contact time is hours, not minutes, let alone seconds. This stuff is VERY temperature dependant, so make sure you check the recommended minimum contact time of fresh solution with the supplier. And it is strongly advised in Europe to rinse off afterwards - so the rinse water needs to be sterile.

            Now, where did I put that ClO2 dosing kit, or perhaps I should UV treat the rinse water instead
            dick

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            • #7
              I guess if paa is used for sanitizing tanks it should be OK for use in the keg washer sani cycle. I'll wash up a small run of kegs to see how it works and if there are any problems.

              For those that use this in a soaking application, how often do you change out the solution?

              Thanks for the input.

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              • #8
                I wouldn't recommend PAA for soaking applications.

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                • #9
                  Why not use it for soaking?

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                  • #10
                    It is quite a short lived steriant, decomposing to non active residues within a couple of hours at room temperature (say 20 C). It is also very agressive towards hose rubber and many rubber jointing seals, so will destroy them rapidly if left in contact with active PAA for very long. Finally it is virtually impossible to tell if it is up to strength without complex titration, so it is not obvious if it is still OK.

                    It's a shame that one of the easiest to visually assess, Iodophors, are due to become illegal for use in the UK, and presumably Europe in a few months time. Hypochlorite compounds, formulated for soak bath use look like coming back in fashion as a cheap and effective material. I am not sure off the top of my head what other compound types we will be using instead of iodophors, but I know there are other non chlorine comounds around
                    dick

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                    • #11
                      Iodophors!? - Yes no more after October, but how to do our starch test then? That is another subject.

                      When sanitising fermenters or BBTs, we use the PAA in the soaking tank instead of dumping it down the drain.

                      As for as checking the strength, beside titration, there is suppose to be test strips out there that measure PAA in PPM. Our chemical supplier is trying to get them for us.

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                      • #12
                        Mayby this should be another thread but why no IO4 in europe??
                        Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
                        tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
                        "Your results may vary"

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                        • #13
                          I don't know the reason for banning iodophors - I will have to ask the chemical suppliers

                          Re starch test - iodine in potassium iodide solution. Never heard of using iodophor - but it sounds a simple solution. Best get some put to one side then

                          Cheers
                          dick

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dick murton
                            It is quite a short lived steriant, decomposing to non active residues within a couple of hours at room temperature (say 20 C). It is also very agressive towards hose rubber and many rubber jointing seals, so will destroy them rapidly if left in contact with active PAA for very long. Finally it is virtually impossible to tell if it is up to strength without complex titration, so it is not obvious if it is still OK.

                            It's a shame that one of the easiest to visually assess, Iodophors, are due to become illegal for use in the UK, and presumably Europe in a few months time. Hypochlorite compounds, formulated for soak bath use look like coming back in fashion as a cheap and effective material. I am not sure off the top of my head what other compound types we will be using instead of iodophors, but I know there are other non chlorine comounds around
                            Thanks. The lifespan info was what I was looking for and it appears paa is best used in an immediate application.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Test strips for PAA - search Lamotte, suppose to read out in PPM.
                              (I think this was posted before)


                              Iodine/Iodophor...
                              Quote from May 2009 issue of Brewer & Distiller;
                              "After 25 October 2009 it will be illegal to sell iodine and all iodine based products." (iodophor) "Iodine has been removed from our market because of potential toxicity issues."

                              This come out of EU directives "BPD" and "REACH"

                              Not sure if or what other products commonly used in breweries will be effected.

                              ...sorry another thread?

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