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**beermkr** · 09-30-2009, 03:05 PM

1. You have to get a Federal Brewer notice and any state requirements you require. These both generally require that you own a brew system and have already committed yourself to leases and other things.

2. The three pro systems I have worked on (Saaz, Pugsley, and DME) have been three vessel systems with HLT, Mash/Lauter, and kettle.

3. The system at the brewery I packaged at had a separate lauter tun and mash mixer/kettle. The mash was pumped into the lauter tun as a whole. You have to have all of it to set your bed...

R/

**GlacierBrewing** · 10-01-2009, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by David Hicks

What type of standards does brewery equipment have to meet, is there a govermental body that inspects breweries?

Well, your friendly local health inspector is the one who will be inspecting your operation. You may also get a visit from the FDA. If your brewing equipment isn't up to par, your beers will show it. I consulted for a brewery that purchased some equipment made in China, this "new" equipment was already rusting on the inside. Not something you want to see with stainless steel!

Originally posted by David Hicks
All the brewhouses Ive seen have two vessels, a mash tun/kettle and a lauter tun. Does anyone make systems with Mash/lauter tuns and a seperate kettle? That is what I am used to with homebrewing.

**Buckley** · 10-01-2009, 07:50 AM

I worked on a system that had all independent vessels kettle, mash, lauter and whirlpool. We pumped over from mash to lauter with a larger pump. We added rice hulls to the lauter while pumping as per the recipes.

**beerking1** · 10-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Like said above, I have worked on a system that had a mash/kettle, and a separate lauter. The mash was pumped, grain and all, into the lauter where we set the bed, then ran the wort back into the kettle (have to rinse the mash tun while setting the bed before it "becomes" a kettle.

Never used hulls, except at home (knock wood).

**David Hicks** · 10-01-2009, 04:07 PM

I just realized how unrealistic my brewery site is... there isn't any sewage system... I had not even thought about the amount of waste water I would be generating until just now. I'm sure that there is some sort of regulation that would prevent me from simply (well, not so simply really) making a drain field for the waste water...

I own a 200 acre farm where I'm hoping to open a brewery, but Im not going to pay the city to run sewer 3 miles to where I am...

Hmmm, anyone have any work arounds on that one? sounds like a deal killer to me...

**David Hicks** · 10-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Since Im growing Hops and Barley, I suppose I could buy a very large water tank and store some of my waste water for irrigation, the only water that would be contaminated would be the water with cleaning agents in it... right? That would be the green thing to do...

**GlacierBrewing** · 10-01-2009, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by David Hicks

I just realized how unrealistic my brewery site is... there isn't any sewage system... I had not even thought about the amount of waste water I would be generating until just now. I'm sure that there is some sort of regulation that would prevent me from simply (well, not so simply really) making a drain field for the waste water...

I own a 200 acre farm where I'm hoping to open a brewery, but Im not going to pay the city to run sewer 3 miles to where I am...

Hmmm, anyone have any work arounds on that one? sounds like a deal killer to me...

David, I would very STRONGLY advise against operating a commercial brewery without a municipal septic hookup. I know of breweries that tried it without the hookup and it cost thousands, tens of thousands, in extra sewage systems, gray water systems, EPA fines, etc. Bottom line; not worth it.
my two cents

prost!
Dave

**GlacierBrewing** · 10-01-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by David Hicks

Since Im growing Hops and Barley, I suppose I could buy a very large water tank and store some of my waste water for irrigation, the only water that would be contaminated would be the water with cleaning agents in it... right? That would be the green thing to do...

okay, second point,
how would you determine what waste water goes where? I know in my brewhouse I'm sanitizing a tank, cleaning out the mash tun, and washing kegs at the same time. All going down the same drain. Acids, basics, yeasties, beasties....
If you're growing food-grade crops, DO NOT use brewery effluent to irrigate your crops!

now my four cents.....

prost!
Dave

**David Hicks** · 10-01-2009, 10:14 PM

Yeah, Im realizing how difficult that would make things. At this point, im only a few steps beyond toying with ideas.

Im going to look into disposal requirements on pbw, caustic, and acid sanitizer before I even think about anything else.

**Graydon** · 10-02-2009, 10:35 AM

Sewage system alternitives.

Call Anderson Valley they have a set of three ponds and if your brewery is small enough you can start that way. If you intend to get large at your facility you really need to be hooked to a medium or large sewer system.

Graydon

**David Hicks** · 10-02-2009, 03:12 PM

Ive already got 4 ponds, Ill definitely look into their system.

**Gregg** · 10-02-2009, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by GlacierBrewing

If you're growing food-grade crops, DO NOT use brewery effluent to irrigate your crops!

I worked in an English brewery that used a single farm effluent pit to collect all brewery waste liquid : yeast, beer, caustic, acid rinse, sanitiser, rinse water, etc. It took a couple of years, but eventually we obtained permission from the Environment Agency to use the pit water for crop irrigation. Of course, it depends on the actual usage of particular chemicals, concentrations and frequency at any brewery, but it is certainly possible.

I would suggest you design simple holding and settling tanks to ensure you can wait to release only pH-neutral and low BOD liquid, and use only common-salt-based chemicals in the brewery - e.g. NaOH, HNO3, peracetic acid.

Alternatively, you can use your ponds to treat the effluent. You might like to talk to Purity about their pond and reed bed system in the Midlands (England).

**David Hicks** · 10-02-2009, 10:54 PM

Thats kinda what I was thinking, between caustic and acid sanitizer, I should be getting pretty close to neutral PH... Im not ditching the project yet!

**liammckenna** · 10-03-2009, 04:58 AM

Think about a constructed wetland system. The footprint is quite small.

I've read about a few wineries utilizing such a system quite effectively. Lifespan, given good design is apparently upwards of 25 years and the capital cost can be surprisingly small compared to alternatives for isolated (not on city sewer) sites.

A word of caution: some jurisdictions will require serious drainage studies, aquifer maps prior to approval and then maintenance of test wells surrounding the site. Usually this is in jurisdictions that have never encountered this before. Might be worth a conversation with your local environmental officials first.

Pax.

Liam

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