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  • Hop Curious

    I am curious about all the breweries trying to sell their '08 hop crop on Probrewer.com. Why not just use them and order less of the '09 crop. If you dont want them, then why would another brewery want them? Its not like the hops you are offering are hard to come by and cant buy '09 cheaper than '08......Just curious.

  • #2
    Because most of us signed 3-5 yr hop contracts last year in order to ensure supply. Even if I've got left over 2008 hops, I'm already committed to buying just as many in 2009. You're right in that 09 hops will be cheaper than our contracts, and probably not hard to come by. Last year many of us listened to our suppliers who said, "You better sign these contracts or you might not be able to get hops in the future!"

    So now we've all got too many hops and we're paying over market prices for them. At this point by the time my hop contracts are up in 3 years I'll have a walk-in full of hops and I won't have to purchase any for a whole year.

    By the way, Anyone want to buy some Aurora, Saaz, Palisade, Horizon, Hersbrucker Hallertauer or Spalter hops at just 25% over current market price? It's a real deal I swear...

    At some point many of us little guys are going to have take a huge loss just to move some of these hops. I know I'm going to run out of freezer space eventually...
    Hutch Kugeman
    Head Brewer
    Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
    Hyde Park, NY

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    • #3
      Re

      A Yakima independent rep stopped by the brewery last week offering 09 Cascades, CTZs and Willamettes for $4.75/lb. I am still doing my due diligence but it looks legit. He claimed that producers were leaving hops on the vines this season. Food for thought.

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      • #4
        Hops

        Interesting postings about Hops, Hop contracts etc.

        My question is: Are you concerned about the Hops getting old in your Brewery?
        Did you ask for the "Hop Storage Index" at time of purchasing Hops?
        Did any of you ask for Linalool (in ppm) to follow the aging of the Hops?

        Cheers
        Fred

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        • #5
          The hops I have picked up away from my contract for seasonals this year have been half the price of anything on my contract. I think it is safe to say this year is a bumper crop.
          Joel Halbleib
          Partner / Zymurgist
          Hive and Barrel Meadery
          6302 Old La Grange Rd
          Crestwood, KY
          www.hiveandbarrel.com

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          • #6
            I'm FURIOUS about this whole goddamn thing! I did what my suppliers advised and now I'm screwed because I still have a shit-ton of 2007 hops left from my 2008 contract while still trying to unload all of my 2008 hops from my 2009 contract. All while prices are plummeting. I'm not just a brewer, I'm a friggin' hops broker!

            What really burns me is that I simply listened to my suppliers' warnings and now I'm stuck with the responsibility of unloading all those hops while losing a whole lot of money in the process because I still have to pay the contracted prices while selling them for the much lower market price. Meanwhile, my loving suppliers are still getting their money - and at a higher rate than the market price.

            Hiller mad!
            Mike Hiller, Head Brewer
            Strangeways Brewing
            2277-A Dabney Road
            Richmond, VA 23230
            804-303-4336
            www.strangewaysbrewing.com

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            • #7
              hops

              Has anyone talked with their supplier about fixing this problem?

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              • #8
                "Has anyone talked with their supplier about fixing this problem?"

                LOL!!!!!!! Like they care! Like Bear Stearns will fix the credit default mess.

                "I'm FURIOUS about this whole goddamn thing! I did what my suppliers advised and now I'm screwed because I still have a shit-ton of 2007 hops left from my 2008 contract while still trying to unload all of my 2008 hops from my 2009 contract. All while prices are plummeting. I'm not just a brewer, I'm a friggin' hops broker! "

                My only mental salvation is that I basically have hop insurance. Like the fire insurance I pay every year and hope to never use. But if the crop takes a dump next year, I will be a very profitable hop broker. Yeah, I doubt it, too.

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                • #9
                  low

                  Beware the old adage "the cure for low prices is low prices."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm also really pissed about the situation I've gotten myself into. But I guess I overreacted to the market situation in 2007. I've known my supplier (North Country Malt) for a long time and I really do believe that they gave me what they thought was good advice last year. They are an honest, family run business. And they have tried to help out by giving a 10% discount off of agreed upon contract prices, which they didn't have to do.

                    But regardless, I've got lots o' hops hanging around if anyone is interested in creative trades...

                    Maybe I'll brew some ridiculous amounts of a Quadruple IPA and see if I can use a bunch of them up hahaha
                    Hutch Kugeman
                    Head Brewer
                    Brooklyn Brewery at the Culinary Institute of America
                    Hyde Park, NY

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                    • #11
                      What does HopUnion have to say?

                      My perception is that HopUnion was one of the biggest doomsayers during last year's shortage. I am curious as to why Ralph Olsen from Hop Union was so vocal about hop shortages and the need for long term contracts last year, and has had no comment this year. Nor, it seems, have they considered lowering contract prices which are 2-3 times higher than current spot market prices. One might begin to believe it's due to the pure greed of suppliers. I believe we need some sort of explanation from them.

                      A question to those who had previous contracts during last year's shortage: did your supplier declare Force Majore and raise your prices?

                      There must be a way to break out of this ridiculous cycle of over price - under price. Many suppliers are now offering transparent pricing, which seems like a good start.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ah yes, my favorite topic. The hop shortage.

                        Fred: Of course we're concerned about hops getting old in our breweries. But 2 years ago we were told we'd be out of business, there was not a spare pound of hops to be found. So wherever we could find them, we bought. 2007, 2006, didn't matter. Old hops were better than no hops. I had one hop merchant sell me 2007 Mt. Hoods, then they shipped me 3 different varieties, some as old as 2002. When I called them on it, I was told "Most brewers would be happy to get anything". I won't say who it was, but it's possible the name rhymes with "Newers Apply Troupe".

                        Funny how in the depths of the "shortage" most brewers were able to buy an over-supply of hops. "Get 'em while you can" was the rule of the day. Now we're stuck with an oversupply of overpriced, old hops. And stuck with contracts we were scammed into signing at outrageous prices.

                        Have you hugged your hop merchant today?

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                        • #13
                          I know lawyers are expensive but, if they sent you hops from many different harvest years and other varieties then what you ordered. I would think that is a basis for breach of contract. You bought the hops in year X with the reasonable expectation that you would be getting hops from the harvest of year X. However you did not get that. Hmmm
                          Joel Halbleib
                          Partner / Zymurgist
                          Hive and Barrel Meadery
                          6302 Old La Grange Rd
                          Crestwood, KY
                          www.hiveandbarrel.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A question to those who had previous contracts during last year's shortage: did your supplier declare Force Majore and raise your prices?
                            We were already contracted when it hit the fan, and no, our supplier didn't declare Force Majore. I've heard from several sources that there was a lot of pressure from larger European and Asian brewers with cash in hand offering 4-5 times our contract to ignore smaller contracts, and pressure from growers for them to take the higher price. We still paid our $4.30/lb for Cascades.

                            I believe there is blame to go around. A lot of brewers panicked and knowingly over-contracted (some would call this hoarding). This is evidenced by some brewers posting on the BA forum (and here) massive amounts of "extra" 2008 hops for sale, amounts that would seem to be enough to get them through half a year, if you look at their annual barrelage. This drives up prices.

                            Brewers should have contracts. I contracted 100% of our needs, plus some to account for modest growth. In hindsight, I think it would've been smarter for everyone, including myself, to contract for a portion (say 60-80%) of our needs. This would ensure you a supply at a fixed price and would moderate the swings on the rest of your needs. This is what I plan to do going forward. If the price skyrockets, you will only pay that on a portion. Or if you can't pay the higher prices you could pull back production of the triple IPA and focus on the abbey dubbel. If it drops below your contract price, you will be able take advantage of that and average down your total (and go Hop-wild!).

                            Cheers,
                            Travis
                            Travis Hixon
                            Blackstone Brewing Co.
                            Nashville, TN
                            travis@blackstonebrewery.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TNbrewer
                              I believe there is blame to go around. A lot of brewers panicked and knowingly over-contracted (some would call this hoarding). This is evidenced by some brewers posting on the BA forum (and here) massive amounts of "extra" 2008 hops for sale, amounts that would seem to be enough to get them through half a year, if you look at their annual barrelage. This drives up prices.
                              I wonder if some of that is from brewers contracting for expected growth, but now not seeing growth as high as expected due to the economy. I feel confident it is probably some of each reason here.
                              -Lyle C. Brown
                              Brewer
                              Camelot Brewing Co.

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