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  • What happened?

    A year ago all of these fermentors would have sold
    by the time you logged off.
    A lot of no replies or one replies.
    Has the used tank market dried up?
    Just saying....

  • #2
    Sayeth the banks: I don't have enough money to borrow money. I'd wager that a lot of potential startups are in the same boat. Not that startups drive the entire demand side of the after-market, but I'm sure they play a significant role.

    Joe

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    • #3
      Exactly!

      We are in the start up mode right now, and we don't have money to borrow money. Banks are not lending and people need hard numbers.

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      • #4
        Ditto on the locked up banks. I went to 24 banks with impressive collateral (125% on the total project cost), well accredited cosigners, intent letters from distributors and NO ONE would touch a startup...period...not even SBA. So I have been trudging my way through the private world, slow going to say the least but we at least are constructing the facility now. I would have bought many of the systems available (months ago) if I had the dough.

        The problems don't stop with startups though! There are many existing companies (friends of mine) that have managed to survive and even thrive in a recession and they cant get bridge/expansion loans for work that is already contracted.

        The ugly truth is that unless your a business (startup or not) that can guarantee 30+ new jobs overnight, particularly in the minority sector and public works projects...your not getting a loan. I was told this directly from an SBA finance officer. We are back to if you have the cash and don't need it then you can get a loan.

        Good thing our economic stimulus is helping small business!

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        • #5
          The money is out there. If they understand what they are lending it for. It is not like they are lending it for a .com startup. It is a giant piece of stainless steel that will hold it's value. The way I see it, buying a brand new tank has gotten a lot more competitive versus used. Why not spend the extra buck and buy new, and not have to worry about the quality of the tank.
          Joel Halbleib
          Partner / Zymurgist
          Hive and Barrel Meadery
          6302 Old La Grange Rd
          Crestwood, KY
          www.hiveandbarrel.com

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          • #6
            My friend is in startup mode and the bank said if he opens a $100,000.00 CD they will lend him $100,00.00 for the bargain rate of 7.5%. Pretty brave of them to put all of that intrest on the line, i would be more worried about the bank failing, or them spending your money on a new desk for the CEO.

            So if you want to pay intrest to spend your own money the banks are all over it.
            Jeff Byrne

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BrewinLou
              The money is out there. If they understand what they are lending it for. It is not like they are lending it for a .com startup. It is a giant piece of stainless steel that will hold it's value. The way I see it, buying a brand new tank has gotten a lot more competitive versus used. Why not spend the extra buck and buy new, and not have to worry about the quality of the tank.
              I come from the same thought process, and new equipment has become very competitive. However I have argued the same story with the banks/lease companies about the value of brewery equipment (new or used) and they could care less. Their rebuttal is that it is the same risk/fail rate as the restaurant biz and they cant give the equipment away in the event of a failure.

              The only good I can see from this bank issue is more solidly financed start-ups from private capital. The biggest issue always seems to be a small brewery suffering under massive bank loan payments verses having share holders that are willing to let a company breath for a year or two.

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              • #8
                Just sent in my business plan on Monday. Now (Fri), they won't even aknowledge receipt of it. Strange thing is that just a month ago they were calling me prodding me to get it done because they were "very interested". Fickle bankers!
                Page Buchanan
                House of Brews
                Madison, WI

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                • #9
                  I've had some similar issues lately with a startup brewpub. I had a bank ready to loan the money but before we got to closing, they were audited and were found not to be meeting their capital requirements; therefore, they were not able to lend the money after all. The search for a replacement bank has been tough even with their help.

                  My gut tells me that brewups have a better success rate than restaurants but I cannot put my finger on those type of statistics. Have any of you found any comparisons on success rates of general restaurants versus brewpubs?

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                  • #10
                    Hense why some of us are ditchin brew pubs for small micros.

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                    • #11
                      re

                      I’ve got cash in hand but most sellers on this thread and elsewhere appear to be very proud of their stainless right now. Good luck to them.

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                      • #12
                        We are looking into a new brew house and buying new is cheaper than buying used due to the interest rates, sure if you have cash it's cheaper to go the used route but who has that kind of money on hand?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mkunce
                          I’ve got cash in hand but most sellers on this thread and elsewhere appear to be very proud of their stainless right now. Good luck to them.
                          Yeah I see systems on here that had twins sell for nearly a third of their price just a month or two ago and others that have been around for 20 years. I guess everyone is trying to find a way to make a buck!

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