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Reducing diacetyl-is it possible?

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  • Reducing diacetyl-is it possible?

    I've got a beer that my production manager crashed before I explained the concept of diacetyl rests to. It's a butter bomb, undrinkable. The owner wants to dump it but I suggested, pie in the sky as usual, that we could let the beer heat up past 65F (thermocycling quality lossed be damned!) and bubble up some fresh yeast from the bottom and hope that the fresh yeast will be able to reduce the diacetyl. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of last ditch effort?

  • #2
    I have seen it work (10 bbl Brown ale 7days old crashed for 1, warmed up to 70 for 3 day rest) as long as the beer hasn't been crashed too long, but it's not a sure thing. I say it's worth a shot if you can spare the tank for a few extra days and have an efficient way to warm it up - like easy access to plumb into the FV jackets. If you are crunched for time and need the tank, just dump it, write it off as a trainig expense.
    Last edited by Jephro; 11-27-2009, 12:48 PM.
    Jeff Byrne

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    • #3
      I was able to do it a few years ago by pumping in about a BBL of a high krausen Kolsch (I imagine it would work with a lager too) into a new FV then pumping the butter bomb into the same FV. I left the glycol off for about a week, then cooled as normal. If you're gonna do this just make sure to purge all the O2 out of the system so you don't replace butter with cardboard. It was a 15BBL batch of a Belgian golden ale in which the yeast just didn't finish out. Hope this helps.

      Pete

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mark Harvey
        I've got a beer that my production manager crashed before I explained the concept of diacetyl rests to.
        I was going to leave this alone, but i just have to ask... This sounds like the mistake a new assistant brewer, how exactly does one get to be a Production Manager and have no concept of a "D rest"?
        Jeff Byrne

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jephro
          I was going to leave this alone, but i just have to ask... This sounds like the mistake a new assistant brewer, how exactly does one get to be a Production Manager and have no concept of a "D rest"?
          ahh....gonna run the risk of seeming cynical and please don't take offense but, I was wondering that very same thing?!

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          • #6
            Add 20% beer at high krausen (usually a couple of days after pitching).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jephro
              I was going to leave this alone, but i just have to ask... This sounds like the mistake a new assistant brewer, how exactly does one get to be a Production Manager and have no concept of a "D rest"?
              Craft brewery in Mexico. I don't think any more needs to be said.

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              • #8
                So far, success

                Hey just wanted to check in and follow through on what I did so that the true function of this forum is not forgotten.

                The diacetyl ridden beer had been crashed for 5+ mo and I let it get up to 65F. I then pitched 35+ liters into a 30bbl tank of butter bomb. Pitch=put yeast in bottom of cone, with CO2 pressure, then distribute with subsequent CO2 bubbling for 30sec-1min. This 35+ liters of yeast was the yeast that had fallen over the course of fermentation (6 days till crashed) in a fresh batch and was at 44F during crashing, but it was the 'youngest,' aka least stressed yeast I had access to. I checked it for diacetyl today, 30+ hours later, and the headspace had it, but the beer itself was on the flavor threshold-maybe I could detect it, maybe not-although I am sensitive to diacetyl. The owner, who is not sensitive to diacetyl, was satisfied, but I am going to let the yeast do it's work over the weekend and then crash it again.

                Now what to do about that beer that I got the yeast from...I hope this isn't a recurring problem, could really bung up our production schedule. I am so glad this worked.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mark Harvey
                  -maybe I could detect it, maybe not-although I am sensitive to diacetyl. The owner, who is not sensitive to diacetyl, was satisfied,
                  A great way to increase your ability to detect D is to warm up the sample. I will put a snifter of the beer in question into a half filled pitcher of hot water for 5-10 minutes, then swirl and sniff.

                  Glad to hear it's working and thanks for keeping us posted.
                  Jeff Byrne

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                  • #10
                    The warming method Jephro mentioned is a good way to test. A slight variation on it is to cool the sample to serving temperature after warming and comparing it to an untouched sample from the same batch.

                    We did this for years but recently switched to the ASBC distillation method. However, it does require a spectrophotometer, some reagents and a distillation apparatus. It's likely overkill for a smaller brewer, but it allows us to put some numbers to the sensory data.

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                    • #11
                      Mark Harvey: You are so glad WHAT worked? Sounds like you have a butter bomb on your hands. Its in the headspace but not the beer.? You kinda think its ok but maybe not?. The owner likes it but then, again, he's not sensitive to diacetyl? Sounds like you feel strongly both ways.

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                      • #12
                        The best success we've had is kraeusening with either a similar beer or a neutral one at the rate mentioned above.

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