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beer won't clarify through filter...a conundrum

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  • beer won't clarify through filter...a conundrum

    hoping someone out there has experience with this...i have read all previous threads and still have no answer...

    plate and frame filtration, using af50 filtrox pads, same as i have done for YEARS, and suddenly 2 separate batches, one an amber and one a kolsch, will not clarify thru the filter...by-pass or 'leakage'. same yeast, which is getting a few gens past it's prime, in both beers.

    pads are in correctly, one bar pressure with a slight differential, tanks at 8 psi, all the usual filtration technique is correct. it is impossible for the beer to get from the sludge side to filtrate side without passing through the pads.

    so here is the kicker...i threw in seitz k100's, and it worked, athough the micron rating is one and so the filter clogged after about 6 bbls...the issue is that the af50's have worked time and time again, and now suddenly they didn't....and it was yeast getting through because i let a sample sit in a glass overnight and there was yeast on the bottom the following day...

    can yeast suddenly mutate and shrink in size? the beer tastes great so no infection...and filtering at 32f so shouldn't be chill haze...i spoke to the filtrox rep and he has to contact switzerland because he is unsure of the problem...

    and help or feedback is appreciated...i have no hair left....

    cheers,

    brian

  • #2
    Haze

    It might still be a haze. I had an issue similar to this about a year ago. I sourced malt from a different supplier and suddenly had a haze in one of my beers (no matter how tightly I filtered). Just a thought.

    Geoff

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    • #3
      Beta Glucans.

      What is the malt bill on your beer? Are you using English Malt?

      Comment


      • #4
        My thoughts are as the the previous two replies. A couple of thoughts:

        - Have you definitely identified yeast cells in the filtered beer, ie. through a microscope?

        - Is the haze noticeably particulate, or more of a cast throughout?

        The fact that you changed to a fine filter pad and could filter fully bright, but with a much shortened filter run, suggests to me high beta-glucan levels.

        At this stage, however, you can't rule out a fine protein-polyphenol haze.

        Can you try warming a sample (to about 60F) and see if the haze reduces at all? That may give a pointer towards protein-related causes rather than beta-glucan levels.

        High beta-glucans can make your post-mash malt appear noticeably 'sticky' - anything you've noticed?

        Finally, have you had any high DO2 levels recently? Elevated DO2 post-fermentation can promote the formation of haze complexes.

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        • #5
          Aha....

          Brian,

          Because filter problems are so variable, I wouldn't have responded to this had I not seen "filtrox" as your pads. We use Carlson pads (XE90H pads, supposedly down to around 2.5 microns) and recently had problem after problem. Unless I'm mistaken, filtrox pads are made by CTI (clarification technology inc., or something, I believe), as is Carlson. We had months of awful, yeasty filters across 4 different yeast strains with generations ranging from 1st to 6th. Some beers did indeed filter better than others (yeast size difference) if you cranked the ever-living-sh@t out of the filter, but basically we were trouble-shooting hazy beer for way too long. We even borrowed friends' plates and ran filters and thought we had solved the problem. After talking with enough filter folks, they assured us it was just about impossible to have a problem with the plates--they're merely structural, essentially there to hold the pads up and that bypass without EXTREMELY noticeable leaking seems impossible. We thought we had ruled out a bad pad lot because other brewers were sharing the lots with us. But turns out our runs were just so much bigger and our process different enough that they didn't notice the creeping haze as we did (by halfway through a 30bbl filter there was no difference between pre- and post-filtered beer.)
          New pads came in (same make and everything, mind you, just a different run) and without changing a single other thing, filter after filter has been crystal clear ever since.
          Since (again, I believe) your pads and ours come from the same manufacturer AND because you ran a clear batch through a different type of pad, I'm going to give you my opinion that you may be suffering through some bad pads!

          Let me know if you have any other particular questions and I'll try to help! It was so frustrating to consider all the possible variables people were throwing out at me as we labored through this problem!

          Sincerely,

          Taylor Smack
          Blue Mountain Brewery

          Comment


          • #6
            haze

            thanks all for great feedback. i spoke with a superbrain technician in switzerland and he determined that we had a haze from using Koppakleer incorrectly.

            i forgot to mention that we recently started kettle fining, but only in the one beer that still remained hazy...apparently, if you do not use enough carageenan-based fining, or do not boil it long enough, it creates and insoluble protein haze, which obviously i was able to remove using the one-micron pads.

            when i contacted a ph.D technician at BSG, and told him the problem, he said yeah you should boil kettle finings 15-20 minutes.

            "but your usage rates state 5 minutes or in the whirlpool," said i.

            no, he told me, that is from the manufacturer.

            "but it is printed, clear as day, in your catalog," said i.

            oh, well, he said, that's wrong.

            just to pass on the info...so it was a protein haze. as to the first filter run that let yeast through, they were becopad 3-6 micron that i borrowed, which i will never use again.

            thanks for your ideas...ten years i've been brewing and never come across this before...why must we filter anyway...?

            cheers,

            brian

            Comment


            • #7
              Similar situation

              I've experienced a very similar problem recently. Was using sietz k300 and k700 (for dry-hopped beers) for years w/ no problems at all until suddenly none of our beers would filter properly. I went through every single potential set up/possible problem (inspected plates, monitored cell count reduction, etc) for 6 months with poor results (almost exclusively) while being as gentle as possible on the filtration (about 1.5gpm through 3 square meters, no DE...7bbl pub system). Before these batches I had ZERO problems and would just throw open valves and flip switches (running about 5-7 gpm) resulting in crystal clear beers.
              Switched to scott labs with no improvement, finally tried sietz HS400 and voila! Back to super clear beers with higher flow rates and the ability to filter multiple batches after backflushing.
              One sign that our sheets were giving up right away is that I would get about 1/4-1/2 bbl clear and suddenly the beer went about as bad as it was coming in with no pressure differential build up (maybe 2-3 psi). Now I see a rise as soon as 2bbl with consistent increase up to 30 psi! I will try the HS600 series for our dry-hopped beers (as I need to backflush every 2 bbls with the 400's)
              Not too sure about what caused this change, we started doing diacetyl rests at one point but not too sure if it corresponded with timeframe. All ingredients remained the same, practices the same (including copperkleer (25-30ppm) at 10 mins left with a 10 min wp, 10 min rest and 40 min KO)
              Ultimately I don't really care what the problem was because these HS sheets have allowed me to sleep again! Besides it would take too much analytical time for me to spend really figuring it all out...hope this post helps!
              Cheers!

              Comment


              • #8
                process change

                hey diesel...just saw your reply.

                i am about to filter the next batch that i brewed without the koppakleer, and if it goes well then i know that was what caused the haze.

                as to your issue, if there were absolutely no process changes at all, then it is odd that the beer would no longer filter through the same sheets as usual. i don't know how instituting a d-rest could cause a haze, because pretty much every brewery in the world does it - i simply let my beer sit for 2 days at the same temp it fermented at, then crash.

                are the h400's a smaller micron than the previous ones?

                hope my next batch filters as easy as before...i would rather scrub kettle coils all day than filter...

                cheers,

                brian

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