kettle and HLT

[Supernaut]

Hello All,

For a small brewery doing single-infusion mashes (and being put together on a limited budget) is there any reason not to use the kettle as the hot liquor tank for strike water? Heat to temperature in the kettle, pump into the mash tun while loading, stir, etc.

Just curious. Thanks!

JB

[MatthewS]

this is fine, but you will still need a very insulated tank to hold your remaining hot water for the sparge. a few brewpubs I worked in had this setup.

the vessel doesn't not need to be jacketed for steam, just well insulated. you will lose some temp so be sure to heat your kettle to 195 or so before transferring to your water back.

[Jeff Lockhart]

I do just that and use the fermenter as HLT for sparge. Cool it down while waiting for boil or during boil and sanitize.

[Supernaut]

Cool, thanks - this gives me something more to think about and work with.

JB

[South County]

You can get away with it if you have a commercial Hot-water-on-demand. This will work for smaller systems but the GPM is what limits it. For instance for an average 15 bbl brew would require about 3.1 GPM of 170F water for 90 mins to sparge and that can exceed some on-demand systems without plumbing two units to work in series. But on a 7-10 bbl Ive seen it work.

[Supernaut]

South_County - thanks! Never thought of using an on-demand system.

[ParishBrewingCo]

I've seen some folks use the fermenter to hold the hot water and even some that use an uninsulated holding tank next to the brewhouse. It will lose a lot of heat, but it can work in many different ways. One issue I have with not using a dedicated sparge tank is the lack of sparge temp control for repeatability.

[HinduKush]

I've seen some folks use the fermenter to hold the hot water and even some that use an uninsulated holding tank next to the brewhouse. It will lose a lot of heat, but it can work in many different ways. One issue I have with not using a dedicated sparge tank is the lack of sparge temp control for repeatability.

One must heat the sparge water hotter than normal (prior to transfer to fermenter) and temper with cold to control temp./repeatability. I've used this method for 20 years.

[Supernaut]

If the flow rate available from the on-demand hot water system meets the flow rate requirements of the lauter tun for sparging one could just set the temperature and run the hot water right to the lauter tun, right? Seems to me the main use for an external hot water "tank" in this setup is to free up the on-demand system for other uses during lautering.

Also, with a passive, insulated hot water tank it should be possible to heat water up to sparge temps (or a bit higher) in the kettle, and pump it over to the tank for sparging? Is this generally how a HLT is used?

Shooting from the hip, as I don't own any of the systems, yet...

Edit: just re-read MatthewS's first post in this thread, which answers my second question.

[South County]

Most On-demand systems have preset temps to choice, usually selected via jumpers in the panels at 140, 150, 160, 170, 180. You could run it in straight at 170, or heat to 180 and run it through a water temp blender (wall mount faucet basically) and adjust it if needed. The Noritz NC-250 will get you buy for $1500, while the NC-380 would be Ideal but at double the price.

http://www.noritz.com/professionals/products/view/nc250_n_0931m_series_asme_tankless_water_heater/

http://www.noritz.com/professionals/products/view/nc380_n_1321m_series_asme_tankless_water_heater/

[Supernaut]

Great - thanks, South_County!

[Woolsocks]

We have exactly this setup. Heat strike liquor in kettle, mash in, heat sparge water in kettle, pump sparge water into FV, lauter, cool FV during boil.

To maintain correct sparge temperature, we heat the sparge water hotter than we need it then blend in cold water as we sparge.

Advantages: We pump the hot (85-90 C) sparge water through our whole knockout path into FV. Very effective way to sanitize the heatex and the FV.

Disadvantages: VERY poor energy efficiency -- lack of hot liquor tun means our hot heat exchanger water goes down the drain, plus we always put a little extra sparge liquor in the FV, which tends to go down the drain also. Also the whole extra step of pumping the sparge water into the FV adds time to the brew day. Also makes it difficult to do back-to-back brews, since you have to clean the kettle between them. Two brews in 24 hours is absolute max.

For us, it makes sense because we don't have room for a HLT in the brewery, but I wouldn't recommend this method unless you, like us, have no other option.

[Supernaut]

Woolsocks - sounds like it works well. The 2 systems we've zeroed in on both involve a combination kettle/mash tun though, so that wouldn't quite work (no way to heat up sparge water during the mash)....

JB

[Woolsocks]

Woolsocks - sounds like it works well. The 2 systems we've zeroed in on both involve a combination kettle/mash tun though, so that wouldn't quite work (no way to heat up sparge water during the mash)....

JB

Like I say, I don't recommend our approach unless your hands are tied, space-wise.

[Supernaut]

hehe - I agree - given our limited startup funding I'll be doing a lot of "make it work, somehow!" myself....