Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is my idea possible? (please say yes!)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is my idea possible? (please say yes!)

    So I've been a homebrewer for a while and like everyone else I have, at one point, said "I want to sell my beer". Well I don't think I have the resources right now to open a full scale 10BBL nano, but I have some pretty serious homebrew equipment and I am converting a detached garage into a home brewery. I would, however, like to sell my beer in kegs to a FEW (maybe 2 or 3) local restaurants. Just for fun and to get my foot in the local beer scene door. Self distributing as well, I live in PA.

    I know even this humble goal requires a good amount of $$, but how much and what exactly do I have to do? In other words, what are my biggest expenses going to be and of course, is this idea feasible with, lets say $10k (yes I have 90% of the equipment already).

    Do I rezone for light industrial or commercial?
    Do I need the same permits/licenses as every other brewery?

    Thanks guys!

  • #2
    Where in PA are you located?

    I would talk to the guys at Breaker Brewing Company in Northeast PA. I don't know them personally but they are up and running now with a very small set-up and it seems to be working for them so I guess it can work.

    Yes you'll need all the same permits and licenses that a brewery requires in PA.

    PLCB brewer's license will run you about $1500 per year. Brand registration is another $75 per year per brand.

    A couple of things to think about, without getting into too many details:

    What are your costs for malt, water, hops, and yeast per barrel? (costs will vary but let's ballpark anywhere from $35 to $50 per barrel)
    How much beer can you produce and how long does it take you to produce it? (10 to 15 gal at a time, you'll need to brew 2 to 3x per bbl...not including kegging or selling, you're in for 15 to 20 hours per bbl)
    What are your costs for kegs and POS items (and taphandles)?

    Think about that and then factor in that you will probably only make about $200 to $300 per barrel, gross sales. Subtract your taxes (Fed and State excise taxes, PA sales tax), cost of goods sold, plus other costs of doing business and see what you have left.

    Then ask yourself, is it worth it?

    If it is, then I hope to try one of your beers someday soon in a bar/restaurant in PA. If it's not, then maybe save your money and plan to do it on a slightly larger scale in 5 to 10 years. No reason to give up on a dream...just take a little longer to make it happen.
    Damien Malfara
    Old Forge Brewing Company
    Danville, PA

    Comment


    • #3
      10k will evaporate overnight, it's pretty much gone already before you even start! Figure out where the next 10k is coming from...and the next....and the next.....

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm sure some of this will depend on where exactly you are (i.e. how many other micro's and nano's you may be competing against).
        mybeerbuzz.com

        Comment


        • #5
          thanks for the help guys. I am northeast of philly (newtown, PA) so the craft beer scene here is great. Like i said, don't care about profits but breaking even would be nice. Im still going for it!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mkyle
            So I've been a homebrewer for a while and like everyone else I have, at one point, said "I want to sell my beer". Well I don't think I have the resources right now to open a full scale 10BBL nano, but I have some pretty serious homebrew equipment and I am converting a detached garage into a home brewery. I would, however, like to sell my beer in kegs to a FEW (maybe 2 or 3) local restaurants. Just for fun and to get my foot in the local beer scene door. Self distributing as well, I live in PA.

            I know even this humble goal requires a good amount of $$, but how much and what exactly do I have to do? In other words, what are my biggest expenses going to be and of course, is this idea feasible with, lets say $10k (yes I have 90% of the equipment already).

            Do I rezone for light industrial or commercial?
            Do I need the same permits/licenses as every other brewery?

            Thanks guys!
            Yes you'll need zoning clearance
            Yes you'll need all the standard licensing

            Philly is a very saturated market, just because alot of beer is sold there doesn't mean that everyone can sell beer there, Troegs is just barely getting dedicated taps and you know their story. Not to mention there are a gazillion startups in the Philly/suburb area. I am stunned at the people that are trying to push in the Philly market, good luck to them but common sense has to set in at some point. As the rest stated 10K disappear fast, the second 10K will go even faster. Get some industry experience first at the least, understand the nature of the business that your trying to start. One thing I've notice in the last year is that suddenly every homebrewer in the US thinks that they run and own a brewery, like its 1983-1995 all over again. Good luck to you, but there's alot more to it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mkyle
              thanks for the help guys. I am northeast of philly (newtown, PA) so the craft beer scene here is great. Like i said, don't care about profits but breaking even would be nice. Im still going for it!
              Why would you work (as hard as you are going to have to) for no profits? Once the romance wears off, you are just a guy paying to go to work. Think about it, you will be actually paying to work. I agree with the previous post, get into the industry and work for someone first, it goes a long way. Also, if you are really serious, plan for success. Your plan is not for success.

              Just because you build model airplanes at home does not mean you are ready to start an airline. (made up a new quote, I like it!)

              PS: You mentioned that you are going to do it anyway in your last post and in your first post asked for people to "say yes" to your idea. Why ask then?

              Best of luck,
              -Beaux

              Comment


              • #8
                Of course it's possible but you hear a lot of the resentment in these responses. I got it, too, when i started a 1 bbl nano for around 20k for the first year. We broke even (meaning we paid our bills with the income, not that we 'made money') in year one and decided to expand. I did not pay any salary (I am the only employee) during that year but only worked about 20 hrs a week and held several other jobs. It was not sustainable for me without pay. don't kid yourself that you won't want to get paid. Having people tell you they love your beer and keep it up only goes so far. We decided to expand to try and reach the sustainable/salary level and it has taken us almost a year. I can say that starting nano helped me learn the ropes and sort of made up for not having real industry experience so it is a viable way to start. The naysayers and doomsdayers are only trying to help. fwiw.
                _______________________
                Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
                Abingdon, VA

                Comment


                • #9
                  thanks for the honesty with the replies so far. keep em coming!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by burcher
                    Of course it's possible but you hear a lot of the resentment in these responses.
                    No resentment here, just reality. The point is folks need to know what they are getting into and experienced voices don't always tell you what you want to hear. We (professional brewers and owners) make it look really easy sometimes if you are looking in from the outside. A dose of reality on these boards seems like the responsible thing to offer new brewers/owners. As far as your plan, of course it can be done, just know what lies ahead and have realistic expectations. Ask yourself the hard questions and be honest. What do you really want out of this?

                    I still think it is a very risky way to go: Starting a business (non-profit?) in a highly regulated, taxed, competitive and (semi?) mature industry with no industry experience is dangerous. It can be done and has been, but many have failed and lost more than just money, don't forget that part.

                    Another reality check exercise: Take the word "brewery" out of the equation and replace with "dairy farm" or "dog food factory". These industries also require large and continual capital investment and hard work. Would you still want to go through all that and make no money (actually pay to work there)? At the end of the day, it is a business that happens to produce beer.

                    Cheers!

                    Beaux Bowman
                    Owner/Head Brewer
                    Black Raven Brewing
                    Redmond WA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I know, resentment was the wrong word. There's no doubt that it's hard, even a poor business decision, but can't we all relate to the need to brew? I don't think it's like 1994 this time. This is homebrewers wanting to go pro, to make and share beer with their neighbors. This isn't the Pete's Wicked Ale guys trying to make a million in year one. Here's the truth, mkyle. At this point in my brewery's evolution, I sometimes wish I weren't at the helm of a monster that is doomed to make little money. It's a labor of love, it's a decision that some of us have to make. I have been waiting for 9 months to get a boiler running that will cost 25k to replace. We're close, but the closer we get the more problems come up. I'm faced with not being able to make beer, being undercapitalized (aren't we all), and stuck in the same unsustainable place I was a year and a half ago. That is not so glamorous. And I'm a smart guy with community support great branding and success. The deck is just stacked against you, that's all.
                      _______________________
                      Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
                      Abingdon, VA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        mkyle,

                        I am another nanobrewer, and from experience can tell you that you'll never really know what it takes until you jump in! Go for it! Yes it will be more expensive than you think. Yes, you will need all of the permits and licenses of a larger brewery. Yes, you will be tired, work all the time, and not make any money. It will be a pain in the butt sometimes! But at the end of the day, if you love beer and brewing, it can be worthwhile. It is for me. You will have to make the call for yourself.

                        There's a website out there that lists a bunch of nanobreweries in th US called hessbrewing.com or something like that. I'd recommend browsing through all of them and learning what they had to do. Breaker Brewing has a good working model as was mentioned before and they're in PA. Find someone close to you that may be able to give you some guidance or allow you into their brewery to see in person. Bring them some of your best beer and I bet they'll tell you a lot!

                        Being able to self distribute is a HUGE advantage for a worthwhile nano. I have to bring my stuff to a distributor who takes a large margin. I make very little on my brews, but the upside is I have a great distributor who can move LOTS of product when I'm ready to go big! I do 1.5bbl batches twice per week. I sell everything I make and barely break even. It took much more than 10k investment and I built my own brewhouse and keg cleaner.

                        My advice: Get the local permits done first (fire marshall, local alcohol) then state (health dept, state alcohol), then federal (TTB).

                        Andrew
                        Parish Brewing Co.
                        Andrew Godley
                        Parish Brewing Co.
                        Broussard, Louisiana

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          thanks for all the good responses. I know i have an idealistic perspective on the industry as an outsider so I appreciate the reality that you insiders can offer. I'll keep you guys posted when I eventually take the plunge. Won't be long now...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mkyle
                            thanks for all the good responses. I know i have an idealistic perspective on the industry as an outsider so I appreciate the reality that you insiders can offer. I'll keep you guys posted when I eventually take the plunge. Won't be long now...
                            Hiya Mkyle,
                            Get at least TWICE as much money as you think you need. SERIOUSLY.

                            Plan on working 50+ hours a week for minimum wage, if you're lucky.
                            Push your brands, push your brands, push your brands.....etc.
                            This is a weirdly hard industry to survive in. Keep at it.

                            Oh yeah, make sure your wife/mate has a VERY well paying job and be creative. (Incredibly creative!)

                            Prost!
                            Dave
                            Glacier Brewing Company
                            406-883-2595
                            info@glacierbrewing.com

                            "who said what now?"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Interesting

                              Not to beat this to death, but this topic definitely has some weight to it. So much so that Vince over at www.soundbrew.com has addressed it with a brutally honest section on his website under the mini-micro/pico link. Not starting sh*t here but just constructive food for thought to bolster the knowledge that has been shared previously.

                              just a small quote from his rant, which i think may can agree.

                              And, we think sticking your toe in the water is for weenies--starting a brewery is big risk-taking venture, and we haven't seen many become a success in the brutally competitive brewing business by starting out timidly.
                              Last edited by South County; 10-29-2010, 04:20 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X