Internal Calandria

[jayraywylie]

I am cladding my 7bbl once direct fire boil kettle in stainless and insualting with the proper mineral wool, however, I am having no luck finding even an example of how a internal calndria is put together. I understand and can do the math of heat exchange/surface area, but I am looking for more of an expanation of steam in/out, steam traps, condensate collect etc.... Anyone know of anything like that on the web?

I have a sussman ES-72 and an excellent welder.
Thanks,
Jayson

[CraftBeerIndia]

calandria

There seems to be a few different issues in your post...

You want to clad your direct fired kettle...means that you have a single wall kettle (ouch) and you want to insulate it and then add an outer-cladding. Make sure you are using Chloride-free rockwool insulation as many supplies will cause rusting and corrosion otherwise. It becomes a bit more complicated with a direct-fire as you need to create a fire-box...are you happy with the burner set up as it is? A good test would be timing how long it takes you to boil 850 Litres, say from 25ºC to 100ºC...clock it, you should ideally be able to move about 1ºC per minute. If you're way over that, it will cause problems (thermal loading, vegetal, astringent off flavors). If you're way under that, then you need to look at a re-design.

I didn't understand how this was related to an internal calandria? Or the Sussman steam boiler you own (which is a good piece of equipment)?

Did i misunderstand your post? Did you want to steam jacket your kettle and do away with direct fire?

If that's correct, is it because you're having a problem boiling and anticipate that a internal calandria will help you? It may or may not, but there may be other more practical solutions than just an internal calandria.

Any other opinions out there?

[Alex T]

Hey,

Just remember that normally a calandria is classified as a pressure vessel (note: I only have experience with calandria 50HL and above), so will need to be designed accordingly, pressure tested and certified.

If you do the sums, it may be a shite-load cheaper (and easier) to just approach DME, NSI or whoever else and get a quote for a kettle. You will reinventing the wheel here, and it might just be easier to buy one from someone who makes them as routine..... There is an engineers lesson which tells you that you rarely save money utilising second hand equipment as it often needs extensive modification to make it suitable.... and I know this doesn't apply to everything, but something to keep in mind.

Cheers,

Alex

[jayraywylie]

Calandria

I'll clear up the confusion: I recovered a bomber kettle which was previously being used in a direct fire paradigm; however, I do not have propane nor natural gas to my brewhouse as we are off any muncipal sewer, water etc. Therefore, we have pulled 3 PH 208V electric to our building I need to boil using steam, not fire, and it seems easier to fabricate an internal calandria rather than making a steam jacket. I'll be double brewing as I have 14 bbl fermenters and servers, so I want the boil as efficent and fast as possible. Thanks for the suggestions. Now I just need to find someone to help me engineer the thing. Like I said I have a rock star stainless welder.

[dick murton]

I've never seen one in use, and don't know if it is sensible, or even possible, but why not try immersion heater units with forced recirculation ? It just strikes me that you are going to waste a hell of a lot of energy heating the water to create steam up when you could use that energy directly, albeit with a little being used for a recirc pump system.

[matt]

Sussman ES-72? Is this the low pressure steam boiler? (< 0.5 bar to get around "pressure vessel" codes)

Why internal? External I think would be easier to construct and install.

My definition of Calandria, is you have forced flow (pump) or otherwise, it is called a percolator.(natural, convection circulation) Which one are you trying to build?

For your setup and size, I think I would go immersion heater, More bang for the buck.

[jayraywylie]

Calandria

Check out the pic, this is what we came up with. No pumps. The wort is forced through the 1.5 " pipe convectively. Should be efficient with my low pressure steam generator. Thanks for the advice.

[dick murton]

So with ten tubes, you will need about 720 hl / hr through it to get good heat transfer with minimal fouling, and effective cleaning.

[jayraywylie]

What? That is a lot of liquid. The brewer who helped me design this uses a internal calandria in his 10bbl kettle only slightly bigger than the one sketched and he boils before runoff is done. Actully, as soon as he has a few inches of wort above the calandria, he starts the boil. THe hot break is good and the beers are clean and great. What math were you using for your 720hl volume?

[dick murton]

A flow rate of 2 metres / second - which gives about 72 hl / hr per tube. As you can't measure it unless you have a strp on or fixed flow meter, since your fellow brewer reckons to keep the tubes clean, you probably do achieve something like this flow. But if you find they foul up, then I suggest adding hydrogen peroxide based additive to the caustic wehn you clean to help lift the fouling off. Much safer than hypochlorite.

[jayraywylie]

Thanks. That makes more sense to me now.

[dick murton]

I see I mis counted the number of tubes. THere are 8 not 10. nil points for observation on my part then

[Swags]

is this unit in use?

Jayraywylie, I would like to hear if this was a successful build for you. if yes, any photos?

thanks

[BrewWerks]

We are in the process of building one like this. I am curious if the original poster ever got his built and in use. I will post back when ours is working. We boiled water with it in our first test.

[BrewWerks]

Here is a picture