That time of year again.....Nitrogenating stout

[Sauce]

Yes, I know there are a few threads on this, some I've participated in, but I figured I'd start a new one and see if anyone has developed any fool proof, diamond bullet techniques for pulling this off.

Here's my previous technique:
We have a nice lil 3.5 bbl grundy I can get up to 35 psi, I pump it full of nitrogen at 35 psi for 6 to 12 hours after carbing to 2.0......and end up with the full wrath and hate of our bar staff serving a foamy mess that kind of cascades, but settles out way to fast.

My theory this year based on reading through the threads again: Nitro first and cut the time in half, then carb to 1.5 psi. This also is based on looking at the pours from our firkins on a beer engine, which "cascade" better than my nitro stout ever does.

Post away fellow brewers!

[TL Services]

Immediate thoughts are that you're dissolving way too much N2 to have any chance of a controlled dispense, hence the 'foamy mess'.

- What temperature are you holding/dispensing at?
- How are you dispensing?
- What pressure & gas are you using for top pressure?

[Sauce]

Immediate thoughts are that you're dissolving way too much N2 to have any chance of a controlled dispense, hence the 'foamy mess'.

- What temperature are you holding/dispensing at?
- How are you dispensing?
- What pressure & gas are you using for top pressure?

High 30's - conditioning, holding dispensing.

Dispensing through your typical stout/nitro faucet pushing with the standard 25% co2 75% nitro at 30+ psi, about a 75 ft run.

We have guest taps with a nitro on most of the time....no problems from the serving end...definately my process.

I do think I went over the top with the N2 in the past fearing the whole "solubility" concerns and I'm sure there was no Co2 in solution after pumping in all that nitrogen either.....

[TL Services]

Thanks for the info.

It would be worth trying lower N2 level as you've already thought; also reduce the top pressure for dispense and try pouring slower to see if that reduces the 'foamy mess' (I like that phrase )

[liammckenna]

Carb to 1.5 max FIRST. Then nitro to saturation. High pressure and cold temps help.

Your foamy mess is from too much CO2. Unlikely it is too much N2.

Taste the beer before applying N2. There should be only the slightest 'burn' of CO2. If it is more than barely perceptible, you've got too much.

Measuring CO2 after N2 using a 'shaker' type device is nigh impossible.

Keg counter pressure using mixed gas (70/30 or 60/40) should be relatively high. I would go higher than 30 PSI for a run that long. If you need to restrict the flow, use a flow control tap or some restrictor line (or inline flow control).

Good luck,

Pax.

Liam

[TL Services]

A heavy tight/creamy foam is typical of N2. CO2 is far more likely to be much looser.

High pressure and high nitrogen will cause increased fobbing when pouring. This tends to be worse when there is little headspace (eg. full tank/keg); once that volume increases the excess nitrogen is 'lost' into the headspace and the dispense settles down.

Typically a high-N2 beer (eg. Guinness) tends to be dispensed slowly and preferably as cold as possible to disturb the gas equilibrium as little as possible.

Measuring CO2 after N2 using a 'shaker' type device is nigh impossible.

Is IS impossible, since pressure-based measurement cannot distinguish between CO2 AND N2. The only instrument that uses pressure but can give both CO2 and N2 is the Anton Paar CarboQC, which doesn't work on a shakeout method.

[Sauce]

Thanks for the help guys! I will post my results later next week.

[Woolsocks]

Here's mine. Works every time.

1. Carbonate to 1.9 volumes of CO2 (4°C, 5PSI)
2. Adjust head pressure to 5PSI if necessary
3. Nitrogenate through stone to 20 PSI head pressure
4. Reduce head pressure to 10PSI. Nitrogenate to 20PSI
5. At 12-18 hours, repeat step 4
6. At 24 hours repeat step 4
7. At 36-42 hours repeat step 4

[Matt Dog]

Buy a Cellarstream from AC beverage! Problem solved. Seriously these units are great and you dont need to fool around with high tank or keg pressures.

[chaser]

Here's mine. Works every time.

1. Carbonate to 1.9 volumes of CO2 (4°C, 5PSI)
2. Adjust head pressure to 5PSI if necessary
3. Nitrogenate through stone to 20 PSI head pressure
4. Reduce head pressure to 10PSI. Nitrogenate to 20PSI
5. At 12-18 hours, repeat step 4
6. At 24 hours repeat step 4
7. At 36-42 hours repeat step 4

this is the way to do it. i've done this in kegs for years, always thinking it was a bit over complicated compared to other methods, but always working perfectly. I recently did it in a tank for the first time with again perfect results.