Start up Lab

[whitemarshbrew]

Can anyone help with a list of needed lab materials for a start up?

[william.heinric]

Yeast by White and Zanischeff has an entire section on the topic. I'd be happy to gives you the run down, but I just lent out my copy.

Bill

[thatjonguy]

I second the book "Yeast". I just finished it, great info on basic lab stuff. If you have $250k for a lab that is a different story.

I am reaching out to the local university for a microbiology student to intern to help me get our QA programs started. Just a thought....

Pick up the book on Amazon for like $12. Or straight from BA for $18.

[mikefromcu]

There was a great talk on this at the CBC on Saturday. Total cost was <1,000. If you went to CBC you'll be able to DL slides and the audio in about a week from the BA's site.

[BelgianBrews]

I compiled a list of lab equipment I needed a while back, including where some of the equipment can be purchased. The items with an asterisk are great to have, but they were not included in my budget and I have plans to purchase them in the future. BSI sells pre-poured plates of differential media and other agar you may want for testing. This list is pretty basic, but I think this is plenty technical for a brewery producing up to 20k BBL. I hope this helps.


Plato Hydrometers 0 - 8.5 with Thermometer GW Kent $36
Plato Hydrometers 7.5 - 16 with Thermometer GW Kent $36
Martini Pro Series pH Meter MT61 More Beer $319
Microscope About $250
Alcohol Lamp Y500 More Beer $8.95
Inoculation Needle – Nichrome Y510 More Beer $3.95
Torch Y620 More Beer $29.95
Stainless Scale - Electronic (13 lbs) MT359S (for hops) More Beer $79.95
Digital Scale (for yeast) About $75
Compact Refrigerator Walmart $70
Incubator About $300
Pressure Cooker Walmart $75
*Portable Dissolved Oxygen Meter HI 9143W GW Kent $795
*Magnetic Stirrer HI 200M GW Kent $169
*Magnetic Stir Bar 5 x 15 mm (10 pcs.) GW Kent $15
TOTAL = $1,283.80

[boatbeer]

CBC Seminar

I second that, Micah's Seminar was excellent, could have been renamed "yeast lab for dummies", and seemed like he got a lot of his ideas from the the book Yeast y'all mentioned. I'm asking for a microscope for my birthday.

[chaser]

http://www.brewingscience.com/

look at thier lab supplies guide. i used this and spent about 800 dollars on supplies for a basic but thorough lab.

[jat147]

I compiled a list of lab equipment I needed a while back, including where some of the equipment can be purchased. The items with an asterisk are great to have, but they were not included in my budget and I have plans to purchase them in the future. BSI sells pre-poured plates of differential media and other agar you may want for testing. This list is pretty basic, but I think this is plenty technical for a brewery producing up to 20k BBL. I hope this helps.


Plato Hydrometers 0 - 8.5 with Thermometer GW Kent $36
Plato Hydrometers 7.5 - 16 with Thermometer GW Kent $36
Martini Pro Series pH Meter MT61 More Beer $319
Microscope About $250
Alcohol Lamp Y500 More Beer $8.95
Inoculation Needle – Nichrome Y510 More Beer $3.95
Torch Y620 More Beer $29.95
Stainless Scale - Electronic (13 lbs) MT359S (for hops) More Beer $79.95
Digital Scale (for yeast) About $75
Compact Refrigerator Walmart $70
Incubator About $300
Pressure Cooker Walmart $75
*Portable Dissolved Oxygen Meter HI 9143W GW Kent $795
*Magnetic Stirrer HI 200M GW Kent $169
*Magnetic Stir Bar 5 x 15 mm (10 pcs.) GW Kent $15
TOTAL = $1,283.80

That looks a good list, but what about a Haemocytometer? After reading Chris White I think my main reasons for setting up a lab would have to be for cell counting, and yeast viability - I've never liked the guess work part of pitching rates.

[BelgianBrews]

Cell Counts are always a guess...

jat147,

Not to sound like a dick, but cell counts are always a guess. Sure, there are ways to make a more informed guess as to what your cell counts are, but knowing your yeast cell count is not like knowing how many pounds of hops you put in a beer. When you count cells with a haemocytometer or other method, you are taking the results from a very small and heavily diluted sample, and then extrapolating that sample to make an assumption about what your cell count is for a much larger volume. When you count the cells in your sample, all you really know is the number of cells in your sample. The same is true when testing for contamination in a batch of beer. All you really know is whether your sample is contaminated or not. You make an assumption about the cleanliness of an entire batch based on a small sample. (Of course, it is not reasonable to test an entire batch for contamination, just as it is not reasonable to try to count every yeast cell!)

I studied Microbiology and have had plenty of experience with heamocytometers. Personally, I am not a fan and they hurt my eyes! There are digital microscopes out there that hook up to a computer, using the monitor as your visual display, which I'm sure would make counting easier. Regardless, this is a very time consuming method of determining your pitch rates.

Another option, though costly, is using a turbidity meter. You would need a calibration factor to determine what a certain level of turbidity would equate to with cell count. You would still need a haemocytometer to determine your calibration factor, but after you determine your calibration factor, estimating cell counts will be very quick, easy, and pretty accurate.

I don't have money for a turbidity meter, and the method I like to use is weighing the slurry with an accurate digital scale. Determine what your typical cell count is based on your yeast strain and the typical thickness of the slurry. Most yeast strains will have about the same cell count per pound, but certain strains create a slurry that is either more thick or runny, and as such can have more or fewer cells. I like to use a converted sanke keg like those sold at GW Kent. I tare the keg while it is empty on the scale and collect until I have my target weight.

I still would suggest buying a haemocytometer, especially if you want to check cell viability rates, in which case you will also need either crystal violet or methylene blue.

I hope you find a method that works for you.

Cheers,

Matt

[ColdFusion]

I would disagree that all cell counts are a 'guess'. Sure, the accuracy and precision are dependent on your mixing/sampling/counting technique and equipment but they can be very good. It all depends on how much you want to spend and it's probably not feasible on a small budget.

I would agree, however, that the best use of a haemocytometer in this type of lab would be for viability measurements.

[jat147]

Hi Matt,
You dont sound like a dick at all, but I have to agree with coldfusion.
I cant see where the guesswork is you mention? If we've diluted our yeast sample by a known amount before counting the cells in a selection of cells and samples we can acurately calculate the total number of cells to a far higher resolution than the method you prefer - weighing. When weighing a slurry you are totally guessing the density of the slurry aren't you? If you guess the density and then multiply to the total volume you could be massively out on your count, surely?
Today I made a small (210L) batch of wheatbeer using a WLP300 vial that I've had on a stir plate for the last week, stepping up twice to reach 11L of slurry. I'm really unsure if I've pitched anywhere near the right amount - I feel it's too light by a long way. Chris White seems in favour of counting cells, but the caveat has to be accurate controls and process first, right?
Best of luck, James.

[BelgianBrews]

When I say cell counts are always a guess, I was using a little sarcasm, but the point I'm trying to make is that you never truly know exactly how many yeast cells you pitch into a beer. I was contrasting this with other ingredients like malt or hops.

In no way am I discounting the necessity to have a close estimate of how many cells you are pitching. I know lots of brewers use a haemocytometer, and when used correctly, in theory, it should give the most accurate results. I believe that using a haemocytometer takes significantly more time, and because there are more steps involved there is a greater potential for error compared to other methods to determine cell counts. If your calculations in one step are off by even just a little, that mistake will be compounded in your calculations further down the process.

When using a haemocytometer your dilution rate is very important. Dilute too much and your cell counts will be inconsistent because you don't have enough cells to count on the slide. If you don't dilute enough then you have cells all over the slide, and often between squares and sometimes cells are on top of one another. You have to be consistent in your approach, and nothing should be estimated. For example, if you take a 5ml diluted sample in a test tube, but you read your volume at the top of the meniscus, your extrapolated cell counts will be significantly off. If you fail to vortex your diluted sample properly then your cells will not be homogenously in solution. If using a haemocytometer you should prepare at least 3 samples, and average your cell counts for each sample before extrapolating your numbers for an entire pitch. If you can prepare at least 3 different diluted samples of your yeast and you get the same cell count, say +/- 3% then your methodology is very good.

James, you are absolutely right about cell counting with a haemocytometer being a more accurate method then weighing alone, assuming cell counting with a haemocytometer is done correctly. I am not arguing that weighing is the most accurate method for determining cell counts, but it has been accurate enough in my experience, and is a quick and easy method to estimate my pitch rate. I think it is more accurate than going by volume, since a certain volume of slurry will not always have the same weight, and therefore the cell count will vary more based on volume than by weight. This is especially true when dealing with larger fermentors where there is more hydrostatic pressure, as well as when there is more CO2 in solution. So I agree that it is important to know the density of your slurry, and this can be checked with a haemocytometer. In general 1 kilo of slurry is adequate for 1 BBL of beer for an ale of normal gravity, and 1.5 kilos is adequate for 1 BBL of a lager. Of course this assumes a healthy, modertately thick slurry relatively free of debris like hop particulate. I am familiar enough with the yeast strains I use that I have a pretty good estimate for my pitch rate when calculating by weight. I also only harvest from certain beers. I know what color, consistency, appearance, smell, and taste to expect from my yeast off each beer I harvest from. Also, I take gravity and pH readings of my ferment daily. Anything out of the ordinary raises a red flag and lets me know that I should question the health of my yeast, and maybe even pull out the haemocytometer and check viability.

I try to put a good bit of emphasis on yeast when I brew. For all the brewers out there with the time and patience to use a haemocytomter to manually count cells for each pitch, more power to you. I thought I was anal and OCD!

[Aaron Taubman]

I'd say that once you have a microscope you might as well get a Haemocytometer as it can be useful, even for just verifying that you have hit the right pitch rate after the fermenter is full.

However I have to agree with Matt that you will find you don't use it that much if you regularly re-use the same yeast strains. After awhile you will learn how much yeast you need and be able to visually judge its consistency (concentration) while harvesting. Also it is pointless to do a cell count out of a yeast slurry that is not fully homogeneous - and it is difficult to homogenize a yeast slurry even if you have a yeast brink! Doing the dilutions correctly is also critical. If you don't have much trub in your slurry you can do it by weight. You are going to be multiplying your cell count by 100 or 200, so being off by a bit has a large effect.

The next level up is to get a centrifuge. This will give you indication of the concentration minus water and trub. Using a haemacytometer you can then build a yeast solids chart and not need to do cell counts anymore.

[GarySped]

We gave a talk on this topic at the MBAA National last year and I'd be happy to share the details on that with anyone interested. Just let me know and I can go over lists and the talk with you. First you need to assess what you want to test for and we can build plans based on any budget from there. The yeast book covers mainly microbiology which is valid but only a small part of required analytics. Scott Bruslind at Analysis Labs in Oregon also deals with the types of QC programs needed by smaller-operating brewhouses.

Gary.