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  • Sweetening an overly dry beer?

    I've recently brewed a barley wine which shot way past my intitial FG all the way down to 1.013. Ideally I would have liked it to finish between 1.020-1.030. I've bgene thinking of some ways to add some sweetness back to the beer while altering the beer adversely as little as possible.Some ideas I've had include adding unfermented wort into the fermenter while keeping the temperature low enough as to not allow the sugars to be fermented out. This will obviously keep more in line with the beer because I'm using malt to sweetening it as ooposed to say table sugar. I've also seen products intiially intended for wine( termed wine condtioner) which is sucrose and sorbic acid, this claims not to allow further fermentation, though I suspect will thin out the body and I'm wondering if the sorbic acid could have any negative effects on the beer in the long run. Thirdly, I don't know alot about it, having never used it, but maltodextrin. What's everyone's thoughts about the methods I proposed? Pros/cons, have a better suggestion(other than hitting my target gravity) then I'd love to hear it.

    Thanks in advance
    Cheers,
    Mike Roy
    Brewmaster
    Franklins Restaurant, Brewery & General Store
    5123 Baltimore Ave
    Hyattsville,MD 20781
    301-927-2740

    Franklinsbrewery.com
    @franklinsbrwry
    facebook.com/franklinsbrewery

  • #2
    Well, I can't offer a qualified opinion on the solutions you've asked about, but one thing to consider is the idea of brewing another batch whose final gravity will overshoot the target by an amount similar to how far your first batch fell short of the target, and then blend the two. - if that's even a sentence. Carapils or maltodextrin in THAT brew, in excess might get you where you want to be, but then if all goes perfectly, there would still be variations, and perhaps most significantly, you'd have twice as much barleywine on your hands.

    Of course, this last part can be good or bad, depending upon your level of success with the "correction", or how much your operation requires.

    I'm VERY interested to hear other solutions, or what post-ferment treatments people would recommend.

    Scott

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Scott, I don't need that much more barleywine though.just need a way to make it less dry with effecting the beer negatively

      Thanks
      Cheers,
      Mike Roy
      Brewmaster
      Franklins Restaurant, Brewery & General Store
      5123 Baltimore Ave
      Hyattsville,MD 20781
      301-927-2740

      Franklinsbrewery.com
      @franklinsbrwry
      facebook.com/franklinsbrewery

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmm

        Firstly it sounds like you should be mashing perhaps 1 degree C high, possibly more, so you don't get such fermentable wort. You may also be able to reduce your wort oxygen / rousing.

        Even though the option to use another brew, only partially fermented out, and then blended with the original has already been dismissed for reasons of volumes, I would be tempted not to use this method for such a large difference in final pg anyway. Like you I have not actually carried out blending with such a large difference in pg, but would be concerned by the flavour differences between the two products, and strongly suggest the balance of esters and higher alcohols in the final blended product will not be as desired.

        Therefore the only realistic options are to prime the beer, probably with a sugar solution of low fermentability, or to destroy what you have and start again. I have to say that if the target final PG was as high as say 25, then I am again not sure that adding primings of some sort will produce the flavour originally desired. I haven't brewed barley wine for a few years now, but my recollection was that the flavour changes between final pg of 30 and 18 were far more substantial than between 18 and 14. If priming up the existing brew to something like 25, I would be tempted to consider this a totally new variant on the original product, and market it as such. I might be tempted to go only up to a pg of around 18, certainly no more than 20.

        I would use a proprietary "sugar" solution rather than wort, as wort will contain all sorts of proteins and malty flavours which are likely to show through in the final product, particularly the proteins as early haze.

        Cheers
        dick

        Comment


        • #5
          Mike, I'd be very leery of adding wort to a finished beer with the intention of preventing it from fermenting. Even at temps low enough to reduce yeast activity, you'd be relying on sanitation procedures to eliminate any other potential agents of fermentation, which is kind of worrisome. It's pretty difficult to ensure that no contaminant organisms will ever find their way into your beer, especially if you have any outside accounts that may not clean lines properly. In the past it's been my experience that if there's a fermentable sugar lying around, somebody is going to gobble it up, and the only choice the brewer makes is whether it'll be your chosen yeast strain or some less savory character.....

          See you soon....

          jaime

          Comment


          • #6
            I have used brown sugar, malt extract and honey post fermentation. I can tell you Dick is right. It is easy to achieve the desired FG and therefore sweetness, but the target "flavor" is elusive. Honey will give noticeable to strong character as well as brown sugar. Malt extract or wort may give a "wortyness", i.e. a "unfermented" flavor.
            My barley wine this year came out 2P low but I added extract to the fermentor and gave it 2 weeks. (A instance of over correction from last year being 1P to high) Hopefully this will give me the FG without the wortyness?? I am transferring to barrels this week so Ill let you know how it tastes.
            Is your beer still in the primary? Are you bottling or distributing?
            It might be safer to stick to a nutural sugar like dextrose or perhaps lactose like is used for a milk stout. The advantage of lactose is its unfermentablity. As a brewpub, I can keep the product cold (and yeast deficient) to retard fermentation of the added sugars. Also there is the luxury of just putting it out as is, maybe using a different name as Dick said.
            As for maltodextrine, it give more body and fullness rather than sweetness. You can buy a powder or next time you might want to include a dextrin rich malt in your grist.
            Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
            tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
            "Your results may vary"

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks everyone for replying so quickly. Proprietary "sugar" solutions as Dick said, to my knowledge are sugars that are simple as opposed to say malt extract which is made up of a variety. Am, I right, or way off? So sugars like these I'm assuming would be sucrose,glucose, perhaps even brown sugar. honey and molasses?

              No one has commented on my mentioning of adding the sucrose with sorbic acid. Is this because it is taboo? I'm all for not adding such things to my products but I thought I'd give it a shot. Sucorse is is basic table sugar and sorbic acid is used to inhibit molds, yeasts, and fungi in many foods, such as cheese, wine, and baked goods.

              Another last thought I had was the possibility of Sucralose, in products like spelda ,sucrose is converted to sucralose, which is essentially inert. So really you're adding a sweetener, that's made from sugar that can't be fermented by anything.

              Thanks again everyone
              Cheers,
              Mike Roy
              Brewmaster
              Franklins Restaurant, Brewery & General Store
              5123 Baltimore Ave
              Hyattsville,MD 20781
              301-927-2740

              Franklinsbrewery.com
              @franklinsbrwry
              facebook.com/franklinsbrewery

              Comment


              • #8
                Additives - ugghhhhhh.

                Having said that, I don't stick to the Rheinheitsgebot and find copper (kettle), auxillary and white finings quite acceptable, as do probably most people in the UK.

                Stick to a sterile proprietary malt extract if you're going to add anything

                Cheers
                dick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok, I guess you might be looking for a way to tone down the dryness of the beer....and thats why you would like some sweetness...?

                  If you have the time, and space I would go with the blending suggestion!!

                  Here is another thought, pull a sample. Fine several smaller lots of this sample with PVPP at differing ratios. Let settle, filter, taste, and see if the PVPP changes the flavor in a direction you like. Dark beers may or may not benefit from this treatment. My thought is PVPP might reduce the "dryness" or astringency of the barley wine, making it smoother, and more balanced. PVPP is a process aid, and not an "additive" so.....

                  Good Luck!
                  B

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A final O.G of 1.013 dosen't sound that bad to me. I would rather a beer be on the dry side than the sweet. In my humble opinion way too many microbrews are under attenuated. Most brewers are so concerned about having enough body in thier strong beers that they always go way over. Your hopping rate may be off for such an attenuated barleywine but how is the malt character? I have had a barleywine attenuate to below that (starting O.G. 1.092) and the malt character was great and free from excessive cloying sweetness. I guess it all depends on what your going for, but I still think dryer is better than sweeter.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A final O.G of 1.013 dosen't sound that bad to me. I would rather a beer be on the dry side than the sweet. In my humble opinion way too many microbrews are under attenuated. Most brewers are so concerned about having enough body in thier strong beers that they always go way over. Your hopping rate may be off for such an attenuated barleywine but how is the malt character? I have had a barleywine attenuate to below that (starting O.G. 1.092) and the malt character was great and free from excessive cloying sweetness. I guess it all depends on what your going for, but I still think dryer is better than sweeter.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mike,
                        I agree with Jaime (hey Jaime) dont introduce fermentables to the beer!!!
                        Cold or not, the sugar is there, the yeast is there (which is active at colder temps than youd think) and the bacteria we can assume is there.
                        Id send non fermentables in, actually id sell it as is but thats just me..
                        Is your malt outside till it hits the mash?
                        If so you need to allow an extra 7 or 8 degrees f to your strike h2o this time of year.
                        DONT PUT ANY FERMENTABLES INTO THE BEER!!
                        Alan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          sweeteners

                          I noticed an earlier comment about using an artificial sweetener to help remove some of the dry character from your beer. Remember artificial sweeteners (Aspartame, acesulfame K and the like) are not permitted in malt beverages (or any alcoholic beverage for that matter) over 7% ABV. also, full label disclosure of thier use is required as some people can not tolerate the phenylalanine.

                          Hope this helps
                          jonofdc

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you are really concerned that the Barleywine did not turn out the way you wanted, you can call it an Imperial IPA.
                            I know that it may not be exactly in that style but, who would question(beer drinker) huge malt and huge hops?

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