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  • Kegs as Brights

    Hello All.
    I'm working with a couple partners to convert a current restaurant into a small brewpub. Our equipment is very small (think nano) and will only be used to supply the restaurant and its thirsty patrons. We've got equipment on order and being manufactured as I post this. We'll be using a 1 BBL Electric Brewhouse with 2 BBL FVs. I'm aware of the work it's going to take to double-batch every brew day, but I'm not concerned just so long as we're consistent with our beer.... which brings me to my question; our current budget isn't quite enough for us to purchase BBTs to carb and keg out of. However, I've seen some chatter on here about Biofine CL and the praise its given for making bright beer. Would I be able to dose Biofine directly into an FV, then rack to a 1/2 BBL keg for force carbing and cold crashing? What other options should I explore sans a BBT?

    Thanks a ton.
    -Mike
    Mike Slone
    Co-Founder, Head Brewer
    23 Brewing Company
    Instagram: @23brewingco - Facebook.com/23BrewingCompany

    "Beer is the drink of men who think, who feel no fear nor fetter. Who do not drink to senseless sink, but drink to think the better" - Anonymous

  • #2
    Originally posted by StarCityBrewing View Post
    but I'm not concerned just so long as we're consistent with our beer
    Brewing in 1-2 bbl batches is not conducive to consistency - just saying.

    Comment


    • #3
      We currently brew small batches 1bbl or less for one off/experimental beers regularly, every week we do one in fact. When we brew these we simply cold crash the fermenter in the cold room then rack into a 1/2bbl keg then carb directly in the keg. This works fine for the volume we do with it. Trying to run a whole operation this way is nuts. When we had smaller tanks and just one 4bbl brite we did whole batches carbed in the kegs just to get more product out while we waited on the bigger tanks and it was very challenging, I wouldn't want to do it again, ever. It also takes up a lot of space in your cold room since you can't stack the kegs while you are carbing them. Have you looked into a 2bbl brite say from Stout tanks, they only cost about $1800 for a single wall that you could place in your walk in. It would save a lot of trouble and work, and make your beer way more consistent.
      Luch Scremin
      Engine 15 Brewing Co.
      luch at engine15 dot com

      Comment


      • #4
        I would recommend you visit some breweries and see what other guys are doing. I didn't re-invent the wheel, I borrowed from other brewers and implemented what I thought made sense. Any brewery owner would be happy to help you with questions you have. That's what makes this industry the best! Carbing in the keg is going to be a real problem when you have multiple beers. As others have said, a huge waste of space, not to mention very limiting as to how many you can carb at a time. Unless, you prefer a manifold with 10 keg couplers that turn into a tangled mess.
        Nate Cornett
        Yellow Springs Brewery
        Yellow Springs, OH

        Comment


        • #5
          There have been several discussions here regarding carbing in kegs... if you do a search for it, you'll see them. The takeaway seems to be yes it can totally be done, but it's a pain in the butt and in the long term a BBT w/ carb stone provides a quicker turnaround.




          As to your batch size and whether it's appropriate, it really depends on whether you see brewing your own beer as your only source for beers, or if it's more of a specialty item you intend to possibly use for an event at the brewpub. There are several folks on here that do small batches but also have "guest taps" where other craft beer choices are offered to their clientele. I guess it all comes down to how high-traffic you expect to be, and the particulars of your business plan.

          Good luck!
          Kevin Shertz
          Chester River Brewing Company
          Chestertown, MD

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Luch15 View Post
            We currently brew small batches 1bbl or less for one off/experimental beers regularly, every week we do one in fact. When we brew these we simply cold crash the fermenter in the cold room then rack into a 1/2bbl keg then carb directly in the keg. This works fine for the volume we do with it. Trying to run a whole operation this way is nuts. When we had smaller tanks and just one 4bbl brite we did whole batches carbed in the kegs just to get more product out while we waited on the bigger tanks and it was very challenging, I wouldn't want to do it again, ever. It also takes up a lot of space in your cold room since you can't stack the kegs while you are carbing them. Have you looked into a 2bbl brite say from Stout tanks, they only cost about $1800 for a single wall that you could place in your walk in. It would save a lot of trouble and work, and make your beer way more consistent.
            There's no doubt in my mind that this will be challenging. Our walk-in is very limited in space, being as it's the only one we have. I was thinking of a "rotation system" where I would force carb a keg, then tap it, and while using that tapped keg, begin force carbing another. We actually purchased our 2BBL FV from Stout Tanks. We also have a 27gal. Blichmann Fermenator <--- Stupid, rookie buy. We failed to research before purchasing this, and then late realized we could get better equipment for about the same price.


            Originally posted by YSBrewer View Post
            I would recommend you visit some breweries and see what other guys are doing. I didn't re-invent the wheel, I borrowed from other brewers and implemented what I thought made sense. Any brewery owner would be happy to help you with questions you have. That's what makes this industry the best! Carbing in the keg is going to be a real problem when you have multiple beers. As others have said, a huge waste of space, not to mention very limiting as to how many you can carb at a time. Unless, you prefer a manifold with 10 keg couplers that turn into a tangled mess.
            We've been to quite a few different breweries, but they were all at least 10BBL operations, and some larger. We did ask questions to the brewers and stuff to gain some insight. So far we've visited Cumberland Brews and BBC in Louisville, KY, and French Broad, Asheville Brewing Company in Asheville, NC. I've actually grown quite fond of Shannon from French Broad. He's really helped me a lot and will probably be up to brew some beer with us in the coming months. Would it be out of the question to ask a brewer to "shadow" them for a few days just to get a feel for larger batch brewing? There are a couple newer breweries just 2 hours north of me.


            Originally posted by ChesterBrew View Post
            There have been several discussions here regarding carbing in kegs... if you do a search for it, you'll see them. The takeaway seems to be yes it can totally be done, but it's a pain in the butt and in the long term a BBT w/ carb stone provides a quicker turnaround.




            As to your batch size and whether it's appropriate, it really depends on whether you see brewing your own beer as your only source for beers, or if it's more of a specialty item you intend to possibly use for an event at the brewpub. There are several folks on here that do small batches but also have "guest taps" where other craft beer choices are offered to their clientele. I guess it all comes down to how high-traffic you expect to be, and the particulars of your business plan.

            Good luck!
            We currently have 10 taps. We hope to have 5 of our own and 5 guest taps, eventually. But we'll be starting out with 3 taps; Dry-hopped APA, Nut Brown, and an awesome Hefeweizen. We don't want to take up all ten taps with our own beer because we love having other beers available and so do our customers. We're in East KY, which is a place that is just recently getting a small taste of craft beers thanks to our establishment and another place about 30 minutes away. Its beginning to take a foothold, thus our reason for brewing our own beer. This place is absolutely dominated with AB/MC lovers, and we're hoping to educate people about craft beer and hopefully convert some of those light lager lovers.
            As far as traffic goes... We're not completely sure yet, honestly. We have guestimates of what we'll sell and whatnot, but I really think our beer sales will kick up quite a bit once people get wind of our brewery.


            Thanks all!
            Mike Slone
            Co-Founder, Head Brewer
            23 Brewing Company
            Instagram: @23brewingco - Facebook.com/23BrewingCompany

            "Beer is the drink of men who think, who feel no fear nor fetter. Who do not drink to senseless sink, but drink to think the better" - Anonymous

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by StarCityBrewing View Post
              Would it be out of the question to ask a brewer to "shadow" them for a few days just to get a feel for larger batch brewing? There are a couple newer breweries just 2 hours north of me.
              That's exactly what we did, we volunteered at local breweries and absorbed as much as possible. Not all breweries are keen on volunteers so it'll be hit or miss.
              Nate Cornett
              Yellow Springs Brewery
              Yellow Springs, OH

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by YSBrewer View Post
                That's exactly what we did, we volunteered at local breweries and absorbed as much as possible. Not all breweries are keen on volunteers so it'll be hit or miss.
                I've emailed a couple places. We'll see how it goes. There's absolutely zero local breweries. There are 3 breweries in Lexington, KY, which is about 2 hours away (West Sixth, Country Boys, and a new one called Blue Stallion) and there are a couple in Louisville, KY, which is about 3 hours away (Bluegrass Brewing Company and Cumberland Brews).
                Mike Slone
                Co-Founder, Head Brewer
                23 Brewing Company
                Instagram: @23brewingco - Facebook.com/23BrewingCompany

                "Beer is the drink of men who think, who feel no fear nor fetter. Who do not drink to senseless sink, but drink to think the better" - Anonymous

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can do it, but you really would want to get the beer cold and clear before kegging. You will have a ton of sediment in each keg. We ferment in plastic barrels that go into the walk in after they are done fermenting to cold crash, then rack out into kegs and shake carb. A pain in the butt, but it will definitely save you money.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OurMutualBrewer View Post
                    You can do it, but you really would want to get the beer cold and clear before kegging. You will have a ton of sediment in each keg. We ferment in plastic barrels that go into the walk in after they are done fermenting to cold crash, then rack out into kegs and shake carb. A pain in the butt, but it will definitely save you money.
                    Moving a full 2bbl fermenter really isn't something I think will be possible. Also, we don't have a lot of room in our walk-in. I think I may have found a solution, though.


                    This should be adaptable to a larger fermenter than shown in the pictures. I'm thinking I could use larger, higher-watt Peltier thermocoolers.
                    Mike Slone
                    Co-Founder, Head Brewer
                    23 Brewing Company
                    Instagram: @23brewingco - Facebook.com/23BrewingCompany

                    "Beer is the drink of men who think, who feel no fear nor fetter. Who do not drink to senseless sink, but drink to think the better" - Anonymous

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So it appears there is another brewery opening a state away with the same name??? There is also City Star in Colorado...

                      https://www.facebook.com/#!/StarCityBrewingCoLlc
                      Nate Cornett
                      Yellow Springs Brewery
                      Yellow Springs, OH

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by YSBrewer View Post
                        So it appears there is another brewery opening a state away with the same name??? There is also City Star in Colorado...

                        https://www.facebook.com/#!/StarCityBrewingCoLlc
                        Yeah, we discovered that Facebook page yesterday. When we were originally deciding on names, we done tons of research to make sure the name wasn't taken... that was over 8 months ago. It doesn't look like the name is a federally registered trademark, but we're not exactly the type of guys that will fight someone over something like this. Looks like we'll be changing the name, no big deal. This is exactly why I didn't create a Facebook page and a website.

                        Lesson learned.
                        Mike Slone
                        Co-Founder, Head Brewer
                        23 Brewing Company
                        Instagram: @23brewingco - Facebook.com/23BrewingCompany

                        "Beer is the drink of men who think, who feel no fear nor fetter. Who do not drink to senseless sink, but drink to think the better" - Anonymous

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Temp controlled fermenters?

                          Are your fermenters going to be temp controlled to maintain accurate and acceptable fermentation temperatures? If so you can cold crash your beer in the FV and fine. From there you can carb the beer in the fermenter and just keg right out of the fermenter. This could save you a lot of time and headaches using kegs as brights.
                          Kenjiro Tomita
                          Brewmaster
                          Triple 7 Brewpub Las Vegas

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