Glycol loop mounting question

[yap]

So I am getting ready to replace the mish-mash of plug-in chillers I have in the brewery with an actual dedicated outdoor chiller and plumbed glycol loop. (Yeah, I know welcome to the real world right?) I have a question about mounting the actual piping to the wall. One of the runs will travel along the side of my walk-in cooler and I am unsure if I should mount the piping to the wall of the cooler or rig it down from the ceiling. The cooler walls are very stable, even if you slam the door. The occasional bump from the pallet jack does cause a little vibration though. Would anyone consider this an issue? I am afraid over time the occasional vibration may cause a joint to leak but don't know if I am over-analyzing things. I know suspending from the ceiling would probably be "safer" but with the height of my ceilings in that area, it will be an expensive PITA to rig it that way.

Just curious if anybody else has done this or is it a big no-no.

Thanks as always...

[Bainbridge]

If you go the cheap route, PVC gets brittle at glycol temps and yep, seems to me it might start to crack and spring little leaks from bumps like that. I'd think copper or Cool-Fit would be fine though, and some people have started using PEX which is more flexible I hear. You can use some unistrut to create a framework, then make sure the pipe supports are a little loose so things can move around a bit and to account for pipe shrinking (if you're using PVC or ABS).

Ours is suspended in a halo from the ceiling, which keeps up it out of the way, but it is a little tricky to work on. One thought though is that if you ever need to move, expand, or replace that walk-in for some reason, now you've got all the pipes hooked onto it.

[Luch15]

Scott,
I ran all our glycol lines low and mounted on brackets bolted to the floor rather than mounted directly on the wall. Once the pipe was leak checked, etc. we insulated with armaflex and then covered that with a flexible pvc jacket. It was easy to install and work on but I have to say that I wish now that I had run it all overhead. Also, with the price of cool fit and copper being very high you may want to look at this material:

http://www.aquatherm.com/fast-growing-brewery-taps-emerging-pipe-system-for-chilled-glycol-distribution

My boiler guy brought this to my attention, in fact he just set up a local start up here with this stuff on their glycol lines. Comes with I believe a 10 year warranty on parts and labor. It is heat welded in place rather than solvent of flux. There are no "T"'s, they just drill a hole in the trunk line and heat weld a smaller fitting in that has a brass NPT fitting on it for the drops. Makes it real easy to add drops in the future if you add tanks. I'll take some pic's of the setup I have when I get into the brewery today and post here so you can see the pipe brackets I used.

[yap]

Thanks Luch.

That stuff looks neat but I'm guessing it's a bit spendy. There is only one guy within 300 miles of here licensed to install it so I'm guessing he charges whatever he wants for it!


Russell,

That's what I was afraid everyone would say. Cool fit would be nice but most likely going the schedule 80 route. Probably going to have to drop it from the ceiling I guess......

[Luch15]

Scott,
You may just want to get certified to install it yourself. The guy that does all my boiler work contacted the company and took some kind of online course and got the certification and he just rented the heating iron used to install. It is my understanding that it is not that expensive of pipe. Any way here is a pic of how we did it.

[dast]

Hi,

When it comes to COOL-FIT piping material it is available in available in three different versions (see below).
COOL-FIT ABS (un-insulated)
COOL-FIT ABS Lite (pre-insulated with 1" Armaflex)
COOL-FIT ABS Plus (pre-insulated with high density closed cell polyurethane foam insulation and with a hard rigid high density PE Jacket, all put together as a sandwich construction)

So if you are looking for an un-insulated piping please consider COOL-FIT ABS.

Common for all versions:
Suitable for for glycol and brines (not the case with PVC see below)
Suitable for media temperatures down to -58F (PVC only down to 32F some producers say only down to 40F)
Very light weight (less than CU, PP, PEX and PVC)
Installation training is included on site free of charge
Insulation available for the valves

Some features that COOL-FIT ABS Plus has:
Maintenance free
Can be power washed
100% UV resistant
Can be direct burried
Less contraction and expansion than other plastic materials
Super energy efficient
No special hangers needed
Increased hanger spacing compared to other plastic piping systems

Please also observe that if you check out COOL-FIt prices in the catalog or online that they are list prices and they are $/meter and not $/ft so please contact your distributor or GF for a quote.

First of all Georg Fischer invented the gap filling solvent cement for PVC piping for over 50 years ago and we still today are one of the biggest PVC pipe, fitting and valves producers in the world and we will not recommend PVC for Propylene Glycol applicationand we will not recommend PVC for medias with a temperature below 32F.
This is why we for ovewer 20 years ago started with the COOL-FIT ABS piping system

Compatibility information on the use of PVC and CPVC has bee investigated from various sources. Here are copies of statement from some of them:
 Chem-tainer Industries Chemical Resistance data shows that Propylene Glycol with PVC has a rating of C. (C) Un-resistance, not recommended, not recommended for service applications under any conditions.
 Chemtek Systems Chemical Resistance chart states that PVC is not recommended for use with Propylene Glycol
 Jensen Inert Products Resistance chart shows that PVC has an “F” rating with Propylene Glycol F=Fair-Not recommended for continues use.
 Cole-Palmer Chemical Compatibility Guide indicates that Propylene Glycol with PVC & CPVC has compatibility level of C-Fair-Moderate effect Not Recommended for continues use Softening, loss of strength, swelling may occur.

Glycol is a potential Environmental Stress Cracking (ESC) agent. ESC is a mechanism by which an incompatible chemical achieves an extremely localized weakening at the surface of the material which permits propagation of a crack

Please also see this link to a video showing impact resitance of a COOL-FIT ABS pipe vs. PVC pipe at 23F http: www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8C_gZls6v8

Dan Strömberg
Cooling Market Segment Manager

Georg Fischer LLC
2882 Dow Avenue, Tustin, CA. 92780 US
Tel: +1 714 368 4196 | Fax: +1 714 368 4197 | Mobile: +1 951 642 2339
Dan.Stromberg@georgfischer.com, www.gfpiping.com