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Catfish002
07-10-2013, 03:54 AM
When cleaning 7 barrel tanks, how much PBW solution and Star San are you having to use to conduct your CIP and sanitizing? For example, are you using a half barrel amount of PBW solution to CIP a 7 barrel tank and half barrel of Star San for sanitizing? Would that amount be too much or too little?

Thanks!

HinduKush
07-10-2013, 05:00 AM
...refer to the manufacturer's website. MSDS available there as well.

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/PBWTech.pdf

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech5.pdf

AnthonyB
07-10-2013, 06:27 AM
I think the OP means how many gallons of solution are you making to clean a 7 BBL tank, not the dosing for 7 BBL of solution.

I usually make about a barrel and a half of cleaning solution and considerably more sanitizer, enough to hit all of the various sampling ports, etc. that the CIP ball can't hit, but that will depend on your tank.

wholehop
07-10-2013, 08:49 PM
half a bbl is what I use, on an 8 bbl fv

dfalken
07-10-2013, 10:27 PM
half a bbl is what I use, on an 8 bbl fvI

I use as little as possible without causing the pump to cavitate. My FVs are 40HLs and I use about half a hectoliter which is about 17% less than half a barrel. The mechanical action of the liquid coming down the walls is what cleans, much more so than the liquid itself sitting at the bottom of the tanks, consequently you want to have as little liquid sitting at the bottom, haven't you noticed that sometimes the bottom of the tank where the cleaning solution sits doesn't get clean (especially in the brew kettle)? In an 8BBL FV I would guess that half a barrel is more than you need. Try reducing the amount of solution until your pump cavitates and then increase it a little from there and you'll have your optimum amount. Optimum not only because you'll be using less chemical and saving money but more so because more of the tank will be exposed to the mechanical cleaning action of the moving liquid.

Hazell
07-11-2013, 03:46 AM
I use as little as possible without causing the pump to cavitate. My FVs are 40HLs and I use about half a hectoliter which is about 17% less than half a barrel. The mechanical action of the liquid coming down the walls is what cleans, much more so than the liquid itself sitting at the bottom of the tanks, consequently you want to have as little liquid sitting at the bottom, haven't you noticed that sometimes the bottom of the tank where the cleaning solution sits doesn't get clean (especially in the brew kettle)? In an 8BBL FV I would guess that half a barrel is more than you need. Try reducing the amount of solution until your pump cavitates and then increase it a little from there and you'll have your optimum amount. Optimum not only because you'll be using less chemical and saving money but more so because more of the tank will be exposed to the mechanical cleaning action of the moving liquid.

This is very good advice, especially for the primary cleaning cycle.

yap
07-11-2013, 05:05 AM
Agree with previous post about using as little as it takes to do the job. I have 7 BBL conicals and I mix 5 gallons of solution (caustic or sanitizer). I am using a total of about 15 feet of 1.5" hose in and out of the pump and never have had an issue. If you have to use a lot of hose you may need to increase by a gallon or two. The only time I ever run into issues with this is if the caustic cycle foams a lot due to a lot of crud on the tank walls. If I hear the pump start to cavitate I just stop and add a few more gallons and restart. This has only ever happened a couple of times though...

A half barrel in a 7 BBL tank is WAY more than you need. You'll probably get a nice fruit basket at the end of the year from your chemical supplier if you use that much every time!

SeattleBrewer
11-18-2013, 01:29 PM
+1 on as little as possible. I've used 7.5 gallons of caustic on a 30 bbl conical with no issues and same cleaning results as a full bbl of solution. I would recommend a pre wash for all cips. Fill your ferm with 5-10 gallons hot water and about 1/4-1/8th the amount of cleaner you'd use for your normal cleaning cycle. Run that for 10 minutes, drain and quick rinse, then your normal cip cleaning cycle. This really helps with reducing soil load on your cleaning solution and results in cleaner ferms, especially with high krausening yeast strains. Plus it saves you cleaning solution if you are regularly having to run two cycles to remove protein (which I have experienced). Good luck and cheers!

DanTheWelshMan
04-26-2018, 08:01 AM
I mix 5 gallons of solution (caustic or sanitizer).

Thanks for the advice. Just to confirm, is that 5 US Gallons of mixed solution? i.e Caustic & Water or Sanitiser & Water

Cheers!

feinbera
04-26-2018, 08:56 AM
The money quote is "as little as possible" without the pump cavitating (pulling in air through a whirlpool). What that amount winds up being will vary from system to system, based on shape/size of tanks, strength of pump, etc., you'll have to experiment to find the right number of gallons for your system. The good news is, you can literally hear the difference – centrifugal pumps work poorly with even a little air in the mix, if you hear quiet/weak action on your sprayball, you can bet you're pulling a whirlpool without sticking your head under a running sprayball to see it.

Bonus suggestion, since you're in the U.K. – if you've got traditional British tanks with the nearly-flat bowl-shaped bottoms instead of proper conicals (we've got a British-built system with this kind of tank is why I bring it up), you'll wanna CIP with the "thimble" in place. This allows us to fill to just the top of the "bowl" when we CIP/sani those tanks, I don't even want to imagine how much we'd have to use to avoid pulling air otherwise.

UnFermentable
04-27-2018, 04:10 AM
There is more than just volume to consider. You need to have enough chemical to handle the load of organic/mineral material. Your discharge caustic should remain at 12 pH or higher and acid based sanitizer should be about 2 pH after your cycle has run. Remember there is a chemical reaction that takes place that reduces the effectiveness of the chemicals. If you do not properly ventilate your tank, co2 will neutralize some caustic, and produce a vacuum. As acids dissolve minerals, they too will become less effective.

I second the suggestion for a pre-rinse cycle, although I just use hot liquor and no chemicals on the first round. I just pre-rinse long enough to loosen bulk material and to heat the tank.

Less volume in the tank is good because it allows the cascade to run all the way down the cone. If there is a lot of liquid in the tank, then the cone can’t get the cascade. I usually go with 0.5bbl on tanks from 7-60 and 1bbl on anything bigger, myself.