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  • Fluoride in the Beer Water

    I just had the water authority stop by for a little Q&A about the water here. We tested the chlorine at 1.1ppm not a problem I think.... BUT she told me that they dose the water here with fluoride (something I thought municipalities didnt do so much anymore) at about .9 to 1.1 ppm. Anyone have input on whether Fluoride is a problem? and is there and easy (as in cheap) way to get rid of it?

    thanks
    Dave

  • #2
    Hello David,

    I've been brewing with water containing fluoride for over ten years. No problems that I'm aware of to date. Currently I use village municipal water containing roughly 0.4 PPM fluoride. Not dosed, but naturally occurring from erosion of mineral deposits and such. I realize this is less than half of what your water contains. I'll poke around at home (later tonight) and see if I can come up with any "threshold" type numbers. If I do, I'll send off what I find.

    Cheers,
    Ron

    Comment


    • #3
      The chlorine level sounds way too high - 0.4 ppm max at point of use would be far less likely to cause any taint. When dosing chlorine dioxide, the target range is often quoted as 0.2 to 0.4 ppm free chlorine - to keep water sterile, and to reduce very low levels of infection. If you're concerned about removal of excess chlorine and or fluorine, use a carbon filter. Make sure you have a decent trap filter after the carbon filter. They have been known to break down and allow carbon into the water distribution system.

      Have to say, I have never heard of a query regarding fluorine before, so can offer no other comments re acceptable levels.

      Cheers
      dick

      Comment


      • #4
        fluoride same as fluorine ?

        Dick,

        I'm a little confused...Is fluoride the same as fluorine ?

        I heard on a radio talkshow that removing fluoride (ie filtering) is impossible.
        Tariq Khan (Brewer/Distiller)

        Yaletown Brewing and Distilling Co.
        Vancouver, B.C.
        Canada

        Comment


        • #5
          fluoride
          n : a salt of hydrofluoric acid
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          fluor·ine Pronunciation Key (flrn, -n, flôr-, flr-)
          n. Symbol F

          A pale-yellow, highly corrosive, poisonous, gaseous halogen element, the most electronegative and most reactive of all the elements, used in a wide variety of industrially important compounds. Atomic number 9; atomic weight 18.9984; freezing point -219.62°C; melting point -223°C; boiling point -188.14°C; specific gravity of liquid 1.108 (at boiling point); valence 1.

          Comment


          • #6
            Inca´s way

            Hi:

            Indeed the fluor is a poison for the yeast, the levels you referred are still high, Could you force it to aerate it (in order to blow the fluor)..
            Best regards, cheers.
            Carlos A. Félix



            Originally posted by Greenbrewmonkey
            Hello David,

            I've been brewing with water containing fluoride for over ten years. No problems that I'm aware of to date. Currently I use village municipal water containing roughly 0.4 PPM fluoride. Not dosed, but naturally occurring from erosion of mineral deposits and such. I realize this is less than half of what your water contains. I'll poke around at home (later tonight) and see if I can come up with any "threshold" type numbers. If I do, I'll send off what I find.

            Cheers,
            Ron
            Carlos A. Félix
            Master BrewerSANTISTA S.A.C.tel: 00511-95194078

            Comment


            • #7
              Inca^s way

              Originally posted by Greenbrewmonkey
              Hello David,

              I've been brewing with water containing fluoride for over ten years. No problems that I'm aware of to date. Currently I use village municipal water containing roughly 0.4 PPM fluoride. Not dosed, but naturally occurring from erosion of mineral deposits and such. I realize this is less than half of what your water contains. I'll poke around at home (later tonight) and see if I can come up with any "threshold" type numbers. If I do, I'll send off what I find.

              Cheers,
              Ron

              Hi David:

              Tasting another beer and refining the beer you brew is the best way to do the things
              Last edited by Carlos Félix; 05-25-2005, 06:45 PM.
              Carlos A. Félix
              Master BrewerSANTISTA S.A.C.tel: 00511-95194078

              Comment


              • #8
                Ïnca¨s way

                Originally posted by tariq khan
                Dick,

                I'm a little confused...Is fluoride the same as fluorine ?

                I heard on a radio talkshow that removing fluoride (ie filtering) is impossible.

                No matter , aerate it, solo that, the fluorine or fluoride are poison for the yeast!!!
                Carlos A. Félix
                Master BrewerSANTISTA S.A.C.tel: 00511-95194078

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most potable water will have an upper concentration limit of 1.5mg/litre of fluoride ions. Substantially higher levels such as 10mg/litre have been reported to have no perceptible effects on brewing. I'm sure their is an upper limit where it could effect brewing but I think this occurrence is extremely rare.
                  Mike Jordan
                  Brewmaster
                  Boxing Cat Brewery
                  Shanghai, P.R. China
                  michael@boxingcatbrewery.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thanks everyone. It seems the fluorine is OK but the chlorine has got to go!

                    For today's brew day we cycled the hot liquor through a port on the top of the tank for about 30min (lots of splashing!) while the water heated to strike temp. Hopefully someday soon we will get the carbon filter of which you speak of Dick.

                    Thanks again
                    Dave

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Too high fluoride level

                      We have a fluoride level of 2,2mg/liter. We must down below 1,5 mg/liter to meet health standards. We will send a bottle of beer to lab to see how much fluoride is left in the beer. I just want to know if anyone have any experience in this field. And if there is any affordable way to get rid of it in the brewing water without change other mineral contents?

                      /Björn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I spent many years working in an environmental analysis lab, and for a while we were part of a company that did waste water treatment. If I remember correctly it is extremely difficult and expensive to remove fluoride below levels of 5 ppm or 5 mg/l. If I am remembering correctly one of the clients wanted to discharge water to a steam and everything met the requirements but fluoride, the limit was 0.5 mg/l. It was cheaper to pay to discharge the effluent to the public sewer than to lower the fluoride levels.

                        Jim Lieb

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dick, chlorine levels are usually prescribed by US municipalities at 1.0 ppm at the farthest tap from the supply. Might be considered overkill in the UK, but it is barely perceptible (at least by me). Removing it is as easy as a pool sand filter filled with coconut carbon for breweries up to 30 bbl. Boiling it off sounds way too energy and time intensive--unless you feel you must to remove hardness. Use a 5 micron filter, the carbon filter, and then a 1 micron filter to pick up the carbon fines as Dick mentioned. Use a paper strip test kit to monitor the chlorine level and replace the carbon as needed. My 10hl brewery is 18 months on a carbon fill and still eliminating detectable chlorine.
                          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Up to 10ppm of F- has no adverse influence on beer/water flavor.

                            If you can't afford a carbon filter, get some campden tablets. Any chlorine in your brewing water is bad news. Water municipalities use some pretty sophisticated chlorine containing compounds and simply boiling (let alone splashing) will NOT rid of the chlorine bound up in the compounds. Campden tablets can be used 1 per 20 gallons of brewing water. Not sure how long you have to wait for them to work, but it's probably on the instructions.

                            Grant

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