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View Full Version : Electric Brewhouse build: heating source



bnentrup
05-11-2014, 06:23 PM
Folks, we are piecing together our brewhouse for a startup, and looking at this as a solution (http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/circulation-heaters/tempco-immersion-heater-circulation-40000-480)to provide the boil.. http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/circulation-heaters/tempco-immersion-heater-circulation-40000-480

It has 40k watts of power, and per my calculations should produce a boil in 56 minutes, for 10-bbl after mash-out temp. We would utilize a natural gas tankless heater to provide a kickstart prior to mash-in.

Any thoughts/critique/real-world experience with this type of heat source? They are used OFTEN in the food processing world. Since it is stainless, cleanup should be a snap (in theory).

Thanks for your input.

Thirsty_Monk
05-11-2014, 06:40 PM
I would discourage using electric heaters on anything bigger then 5 BBL. with 40k you will run to demand issue.

bnentrup
05-11-2014, 06:57 PM
I would discourage using electric heaters on anything bigger then 5 BBL. with 40k you will run to demand issue.

help me out; 'run to demand' -- are you saying that I will run into difficulty providing the electrical service? We have a 480v 3-phase, 400-amps/industrial setup. I know that it will barely squeeze by with the 10bbl on brew times if keeping to the under 1hr boil desire.. but I am okay if it will do just that (theory vs. real-life are ALWAYS different though, and I looking into that).

Thirsty_Monk
05-11-2014, 07:51 PM
help me out; 'run to demand' -- are you saying that I will run into difficulty providing the electrical service? We have a 480v 3-phase, 400-amps/industrial setup. I know that it will barely squeeze by with the 10bbl on brew times if keeping to the under 1hr boil desire.. but I am okay if it will do just that (theory vs. real-life are ALWAYS different though, and I looking into that).

With electricity you pay for usage and demand separate.

Usage is quite straight forward. Demand is measured in time intervals (like 15 min) and reset monthly. Think of demand like of pipe. More demand you have fatter pipe you need to have and more you pay. You even have different rate in winter vs summer.

I can use up to 60kW in my brew house but I try to keep it under 30kW. I use about 35-40 terms. I have 5.5 BBL brew house.

With your service you have more then enough power.

bnentrup
05-12-2014, 05:45 AM
somehow, the post I made last night did not come through:

I find that 'demand' in my area is about $8 per kWh for industrial/business classification 3-phase - assuming 50k max with everything I have running at once.. that means $480 for usage. They have a $50 connection fee too. It seems my provider discounts usages SIGNIFICANTLY for businesses that are 'mostly' electric.. not sure how they would qualify me. However, this gets their usage to a .04 rate with max of .08 per kWh peak- total bill about $780 per mo estimated.

Indicating 1920 kWh consumption that I have estimated to run my boiler 3-hrs full max per 10bbl batch, with 16-batches (160bbl for the month)... brings me to about $4 per barrel cost for energy with most facility usage/load. Am I understanding demand right now? It would be the max usage during a segment?

The only negative i see is that if I fire up my kettle for the first time, at month end, with the full load 40k.. I owe them $320+ regardless of usage. That could be costly and would kill if I am not conscious of this during testing phase.


With electricity you pay for usage and demand separate.

Usage is quite straight forward. Demand is measured in time intervals (like 15 min) and reset monthly. Think of demand like of pipe. More demand you have fatter pipe you need to have and more you pay. You even have different rate in winter vs summer.

I can use up to 60kW in my brew house but I try to keep it under 30kW. I use about 35-40 terms. I have 5.5 BBL brew house.

With your service you have more then enough power.

Starcat
05-12-2014, 06:15 AM
A 40 Kilowatt industrial immersion heater?
You have seriously got to be kidding......

bnentrup
05-12-2014, 06:32 AM
Please help Starcat.. your reply means nothing if you do not communicate well. I am trying to receive education here. Why do you 'have to seriously got to be kidding'... ??


A 40 Kilowatt industrial immersion heater?
You have seriously got to be kidding......

CPESystems
05-12-2014, 07:02 AM
I see a couple of issues with this particular heater.

1) It is a recirculation heater. If your kettle is jacketed, in which case you would circulate water through the jacket and heater and you will lose efficiency in the kettle jacket. You will have a hard time getting a boil using just hot water in the jacket because the water will only get to 212 F.

2) If you recirculate the wort through this heater I suspect you will get a fair amount of burn on, on the elements and it will be difficult to clean.

3) It looks like stainless elements, but mild steel tank with "stainless steel finish"

4) It has only a NEMA 1 junction box, not very water tight at all. I would be worried about this in a brewery.

I think this is closer to what you need, but still not stainless and still only NEMA 1

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/circulation-heaters/tempco-immersion-heater-5-flange-40000-480-3

Thirsty_Monk
05-12-2014, 02:49 PM
Another think with these heating elements is that they are most likely design for water. Wort contains sugar and you will burn it to element unless you use ultra low density elements.

Thirsty_Monk
05-12-2014, 02:52 PM
somehow, the post I made last night did not come through:

I find that 'demand' in my area is about $8 per kWh for industrial/business classification 3-phase - assuming 50k max with everything I have running at once.. that means $480 for usage. They have a $50 connection fee too. It seems my provider discounts usages SIGNIFICANTLY for businesses that are 'mostly' electric.. not sure how they would qualify me. However, this gets their usage to a .04 rate with max of .08 per kWh peak- total bill about $780 per mo estimated.

Indicating 1920 kWh consumption that I have estimated to run my boiler 3-hrs full max per 10bbl batch, with 16-batches (160bbl for the month)... brings me to about $4 per barrel cost for energy with most facility usage/load. Am I understanding demand right now? It would be the max usage during a segment?

The only negative i see is that if I fire up my kettle for the first time, at month end, with the full load 40k.. I owe them $320+ regardless of usage. That could be costly and would kill if I am not conscious of this during testing phase.

Your last paragraph is correct.
I would use direct fire or steam if I were you.

Graydon
05-12-2014, 03:02 PM
The most cost effective way to heat a 10 bbl kettle is with a gas burner. There are many designs out there and they have been used for years. The only area's that this may not be true is where low NOX air quality regulations are being enforced. If you are trying to start a brewery on your own with little prior experience, I suggest you get help and quickly. The money you spend on an experienced person will be repaid ten fold.

Graydon Brown