hazy vs bright

[thornbridgerob]

I read about a festival in London recently where some of the local brewers were preaching the benefits of cloudy beer:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2014/may/23/unfiltered-beer-cloudy-pint-unfined-london-murky

I have to say it doesn't hold much credence with me as I doubt many of the brewers involved could articulate the benefits of hazy beer over bright beer other than 'it tastes better' Given the fact most of them bottle by hand and have no control over oxygen and yeast counts, I would suggest they have more pressing issues to worry about than the virtues of hazy beer.

I am assuming their haze is a mixture of hop haze and yeast.

However it did get me thinking about the benefits of yeasty unfilterted beer over bright beer. Personally I don't like unfiltered tank beer and think its a bit of a gimmick as I find yeast tends to mask flavour. Admittedly sterile filtration can strip out flavour but do centrifugation and filtration really strip that much flavour? How about finings and PVVP, how detrimental

I would be interested to hear what other brewers think on this subject?

[nateo]

I have to say it doesn't hold much credence with me as I doubt many of the brewers involved could articulate the benefits of hazy beer over bright beer other than 'it tastes better'

If making beer that you think tastes good isn't the point, then what is?

I've read studies where professional wine critics couldn't tell the difference between a red and white when they're blindfolded. People also think wine tastes better if you tell them it's expensive, than when you tell them it's cheap. So even if the effect is purely psychological, it can still significantly affect taste.

[ChesterBrew]

IMO, totally depends on the style, and the way it's been handled post-fermentation.

I don't consider an unfiltered beer to equal a bad beer, but also don't think it should be used as a crutch/excuse for a bad beer.

Humankind has been brewing beer for centuries... and most of it was without filtration.

[thornbridgerob]

If making beer that you think tastes good isn't the point, then what is?

I've read studies where professional wine critics couldn't tell the difference between a red and white when they're blindfolded. People also think wine tastes better if you tell them it's expensive, than when you tell them it's cheap. So even if the effect is purely psychological, it can still significantly affect taste.

Amongst certain brewing fraternities there is school of thought that hazy or yeasty beer is inherently better than bright beer because its more natural. The process of getting a beer bright is purely a process of separation, just as lautering or whirlpooling

I for one generally prefer bright beer over yeasty tank beer, I would just like to know what other brewers thoughts are?

On the subject of being blindfolded when tasting, sight plays a major role in the whole tasting process, so I wouldn't be surprised with that study.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-how-does-sight-smell-affect-taste/

[thornbridgerob]

IMO, totally depends on the style, and the way it's been handled post-fermentation.

I don't consider an unfiltered beer to equal a bad beer, but also don't think it should be used as a crutch/excuse for a bad beer.

Humankind has been brewing beer for centuries... and most of it was without filtration.

yes I agree, certain beer like wheat beers are better unfiltered, but when I brew a wheat beer I brew with this in mind.

Yes beer might have been brewed for centuries without filtration, but it was also brewed without modern maltings, oxygen control and no way of preserving hops, the list goes on....

I know which century I'd prefer to be drinking beer in!

[TL Services]

I guess it all depends on the nature of the haze material. Putting aside those beers that are naturally cloudy, eg. wheat beers, then a small amount of yeast, hop fines, or similar may add to the distinctive style of a particular beer.

On the other hand if the haze is a protein-polyphenol complex, then I'd be more likely to consider it a 'defect'; the same goes for dried fob, oxalates, beta glucans and the various other undesirables.

[nateo]

Since some people are putting donuts into their beer (see the thread in the Recipe Formulation subforum), I think hazy beer is a much saner gimmick.

[ChesterBrew]

Amongst certain brewing fraternities there is school of thought that hazy or yeasty beer is inherently better than bright beer because its more natural. The process of getting a beer bright is purely a process of separation, just as lautering or whirlpooling

I for one generally prefer bright beer over yeasty tank beer, I would just like to know what other brewers thoughts are?

On the subject of being blindfolded when tasting, sight plays a major role in the whole tasting process, so I wouldn't be surprised with that study.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-affect-taste/

You clearly (no pun intended) prefer filtered beer through your comments... so why be a troll about it?

You're not looking for information... just validation of your opinion. Very sorry to have attempted to contribute to this "conversation."

[Bainbridge]

Hazy = Lazy

My problem is that there's hazy, think of say, a good hefe or a heavily dryhopped IPA, and there's hazy. Going to draw a distinction here between chill hazes in say, high wheat beers or occasional polyphenol hazes from dryhopping, and yeast haze from unfined, unfiltered, unlagered, unflocculant yeast. The former can be just fine, even expected. The later is an unacceptable FAIL.

Often "unfiltered" is sold as somehow being good because it's more "natural". But really, it's just an excuse for not making brite beer in the first place. Certain beers are purposely cloudy as part of their "brand". The fact that this allows them to go a week from kettle to keg is Certainly In No Way Part Of The Plan All Along. This in turn conditions the public to think that yeast haze is somehow ok, so others get away with serving cloudy, murky ass beers. Then when I get served a pint of chundery pond water and refuse it, the bar owner is like "What's wrong with it? Everyone else is drinking it." Well I'm not. Yes, yeast has some vitamins, but it's going to do basically nothing else good for the finished beer. Get it out of there. (And git' off my lawn!)

[panadero]

You clearly (no pun intended) prefer filtered beer through your comments... so why be a troll about it?

You're not looking for information... just validation of your opinion. Very sorry to have attempted to contribute to this "conversation."

I think he was just stating his opinion. I too dont, in general, like yeasty hazy beer, but I am sure blindfolded I would miss the distinction on some beers. We do not filter, I find time at 32 degrees does the job fine for my purposes - but I do not package. I had a perfect pour of an Octoberfest last fall, and went for a second one. They had to change the keg, and drag the new one from another cooler, and the glass was one of the thickest beers I have ever been served. I had to close my eyes to drink it, and the flavors were muted. Now in an IPA with hop haze, I would have been fine.
Go figure, I have brewer friends who love their cloudy beers. Nothing wrong with opinions.
The forum members here rarely troll.

David