Temperature profile IPA post fermentation

[HopSteady]

I am trying to brew an extremely clean and fresh tasting IPA with really clean hop aroma's with as little vegetal hop character as possible. My current temperature profile looks something like this:

primary - 4 days @ 17c/63f (low temp 1056 or 1272 in order to minimise ester production)
secondary - 5 days @ 20c/68f (warm temp so yeast can clean up precursors)
dry hop - 5 days @ 20c/68f (warm dry hop to maximise essential oil dissolution
- 3 days @ 10c/50f (in order to clear beer)

Perhaps I should lower the temp before the dry hop to clear up beer before adding hops?

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

[Sauce]

I've heard dropping the temp as little as 8 degrees to 60 f will help with yeast settling so you can crop from your IPA before dry hopping.

....but, I'm still leery of trying it, do to my past attempts dry hopping at a cooler temp (in the 50s f), which is a recipe for the grassy/vegetal flavors you are looking to avoid.


JackK

[Junkyard]

As far as temperature control goes, Make sure the temp is a steady ramp up and not abrupt, I would start the ramp up from 17c after 48-72 hours personally. When you say secondary, are you transferring to a secondary fermenter? 1056 will be a cleaner profile than 1272 but 1272 will drop out for cropping faster. I've never had troubles with either of them for cropping before dry hopping. Never have to crash them. If you want to avoid vegetal character, avoid dry hopping below 50 degrees F.

[HopSteady]

after primary, I dump the dropped out yeast from the bottom of the conical, and let the yeast still in suspension take care of the clean up.

looks like dry hopping below 50f is the key here, thanks for that input.

I guess, after the secondary is complete (5 days @ 20c/68f), it might make sense to go down to 15.5c/60f to let as much of the yeast drop out as possible, re-dump the yeast trub, and then dry hop at this same temperature, with as little suspended yeast as possible, while staying comfortably above the 50f mark where things get vegetal?

so, to update the original temp profile based on the feedback:

primary - 4 days @ 17c/63f (low temp 1056 or 1272 in order to minimise ester production) - start ramping up temperature slowly after 2-3days
secondary - 5 days @ 20c/68f (warm temp so yeast can clean up precursors)
clearing - 3 days @ 15.5c/60f (most yeast will drop out of suspension)
dry hop - 5 days @ 15.5c/60f (warm enough to prevent grassy/vegetal flavours, cold enough so any remaining yeast continues to drop and and clear the beer)

thanks again for the feedback

[SeattleBrewer]

I wouldn't recommend dry hopping at that low of a temp. No lower than 60°F. I would recommend dry hopping at 68°F. I find it brings out more of the hop oils, and faster. If you'd like to avoid vegetal, split up your dry hops into two doses: add the first dose, rouse on day two. On day three, dump the hops from the cone, then add dose two, rouse day four, crash day five and remove dry hops from cone. Once the hops hit the cone, they are doing very little good since they aren't in contact with much beer, as anyone who has tried to clear a massive plug of settled dry hops from the cone can tell you.
Best of luck and cheers,
Greg

[HopSteady]

Great advice, that makes a lot of sense, thanks.

How do you rouse the hops? Via a small co2 injection? a pump recirculating from racking arm into bottom dump?

Will the volatile aromas scrubbed by a small co2 dose be much of an issue? co2 is obviously much easier/sanitary than a pump setup...

[Baldrick]

I think it's vital to remove as much yeast as possible before dry hopping.
The yeast cells will mix with the hops and many of the oils that you're trying to infuse into the beer will stick to the outside of the yeast cells and you'll dump those along with the hops.

Shock the yeast by dropping from 68 F to 60 F and you'll be surprised how much drops out in a day or two. Both 1272 and 1056 settle out easily with this technique, with 1056 taking a day longer or so.

[tjc27]

Its a home brew article but there is some great info in here.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf

[HopSteady]

Ahh, I read that a while ago but didn't realise he went into so much detail about dry hopping techniques, temperatures, etc. Thanks for sharing.

[Baldrick]

The only thing I don't agree with is the length of time spent dry hopping.

In our experience, once the hops settle they no longer infuse flavour or aroma. Rousing them one time, maybe two times with a CO2 bubble helps, but all you get from the 5th day on is the taste of vegetal matter.

[HopSteady]

Baldrick, is this based on pellet hops? I wonder if cones take longer to extract aromatics as the lupulin glands are hidden behind the hop leaves. With pellets, the hops are essentially all mixed up and blended and so should extract much faster.

[AnthonyB]

On the other hand, with whole hops you have a much higher ratio of organic, vegetal matter to lupulin and in my experience you seem to get those especially grassy, green flavors much quicker than with pellets.

[HopSteady]

Interesting. I spoke to Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River a few months ago at a tasting event in Brussels and one of my questions was whether he uses whole hops or pellets. His answer was "whole hops? I wish!" I guess pellets are easier to work with on a commercial scale however this gave me the impression that cones are superior in terms of flavor.