Tank leaking?

[Maplestones]

Hi all,

Just wanted to run something past the experts on here as I've just tested my first brite tank and I think it has an issue but want to get some thoughts before I chase it up with the supplier.

I have a 7 bbl brite tank that i'm testing. I filled it up with water to 225 gl and then left it over night. When I came back the next day I noticed water on the ground. I thought it was just the condensation building up. Then I noticed the level has dropped to approx 212 gl. There wasn't a lot of water maybe a gallon but definitely not 12+. It appears to be leaking from the legs so I can only assume there is a leak internally and it has filled the bottom of the tank jacket until it reached the welds for the legs and is slowly leaking from there.

Does this sound correct? Anyone have any ideas on how I could further test for leaks? I visually inspected inside but can't see anything wrong.

Any thoughts on what I should do are appreciated?

Thanks all!

[porter]

Gas

You could pressurize it empty and test for leaks in suspected areas with some foamy soap and water. I think that would be easier than trying to find water leaking out.
That said, most tank leaks I have seen aren't easy to spot their origin. It's often a hairline crack or incorrect weld finish that only leaks under pressure or temperature change.

good luck!

[aeschill]

I agree that pressurizing the tank and spraying soapy water to find leaks is a good approach. I would also suggest filling it with water and then pressurizing. That would help push the water through the leaks faster and may leave a visible track.

[TGTimm]

Unfortunately, it sounds like your BT is insulated and jacketed. This makes locating a leak without removing the jacket and insulation very difficult. The best you can do is to pressurize the tank with air (don't go too high--you already know the vessel is flawed and a vessel full of compressed air can rupture explosively) and use a stethoscope--either a real one or improvised--to try to localize the leak by listening for a hissing sound. You may be able to borrow a stethoscope from a car repair shop, as many use one to locate funny sounds. Once you know the general location of the leak(s), then you can cut out just that portion of the jacket and start hunting with the soapy water.

Good luck--

[biosonik]

Leak

Some good ideas, some possibly scary ideas. Proceed with caution.

Use air regulated LOW if you want. Otherwise you are creating a potentially lethal situation.

A liquid filled tank will rupture at failure, as liquid is much harder to compress. An air filled tank will explode at failure. Obviously the tank is compromised.

First, look inside. Bring a light and a ladder in there and look around, since it's likely the internal wall that is compromised based on the volume loss.

If you can't find anything, fill it up with very cold water. Eventually condensation will form in a cone like fashion on the outside wall at the leak site due to temp differences and reveal the vicinity. This works for glycol jacket or product side leaks.

If all else fails, let it leak until it stops. This will reveal the horizontal level of the leak to narrow down your search.

[Maplestones]

Thanks for the input guys. I thought I'd update for future reference.

So I found the leak inside the tank. Visually too. A small pin hole on the co2 port weld. Taped it up and it holds pressure for days now so assuming we've found the cause of the inside problems.

An additional way to test inside that someone told me about was to plug up the base of three of the legs and then hook up pressure to the 4th and then try to find the leak inside listening for the hiss or with soapy water. That seemed like a good option although a bit of a PITA to jack up the tank to access the base of the legs, etc, but fortunately I didn't have to resort to that.

Additionally, there is a leak in the jacket for certain. I put pressure on the jacket and it slowly lost it and was leaking small amounts of glycol on the floor. I've been told to try a stethoscope or run it cold and look for cold spots to try to locate the area of the leak. TGTimm is right in that it is insulated and jacketed so any other ideas for finding a leak in an insulated jacket would be appreciated.

Also, if anyone knows of a welder they trust to fix things like this in the NYC area?

I'm not going to name the tank supplier as they have been very good in helping to resolve the issue and paying for the repairs but I have very quickly learnt I'm not buying Chinese ever again!

[monkeybrewer]

never tried it but it should work

fill the tank and let it leak...once it stops leaking note the volume and figure at what level that volume is inside the tank. Your leak will be located at some point around the circumference of the remaining volume.
Never tried it but it seems logical to me and you avoid a pressure situation with a theoretically compromised tank.
Cheers
Jay

[TGTimm]

We've used both the air pressure (5psi)/stethoscope and the cold water/look for condensation methods for locating jacket leaks. At the worst, cut the outer jacket and insulation (usually styrofoam) off in sections until you find the leak using pressure/soapy water or dyed liquid in the jacket. weld up the leak(s), replace the sections of foam, weld the jacket back--you'll need a good welder experienced in sanitary work. Ugly, but....

[Natrat]

Is it a new tank? Call the manufacturer and make it their problem.

Used tank? Finding glycol leaks is a pain. One thing I've noticed is that the insulation tends to load up with glycol downhill from the leak. Use a drill and a small bit to probe the outer sheath until you find dry insulation. Then zero in on the highest wet area. Usually that's within a foot of the actual problem (usually a bad dimple weld that has pulled away and left a hole)

Buy some silicon to plug the holes you drilled. A silver paint sharpie does wonders at hiding the holes, if you can't find silver silicon. The biggest pain is that it's tough for a welder to do a nice job on the sheath if there's insulation (which burns) behind the metal. I like insulating and then riveting a patch over top. And don't drill into the jacket! Also, whatever you do, don't pressurize a suspected leaking dimple jacket...if it IS leaking from a dimple weld failure, then if you pressurize the jacket, it can cause a bunch of other dimple welds to fail, and then you have a lot of stainless scrap!

Good luck

[Maplestones]

Is it a new tank? Call the manufacturer and make it their problem.

Used tank? Finding glycol leaks is a pain. One thing I've noticed is that the insulation tends to load up with glycol downhill from the leak. Use a drill and a small bit to probe the outer sheath until you find dry insulation. Then zero in on the highest wet area. Usually that's within a foot of the actual problem (usually a bad dimple weld that has pulled away and left a hole)

Buy some silicon to plug the holes you drilled. A silver paint sharpie does wonders at hiding the holes, if you can't find silver silicon. The biggest pain is that it's tough for a welder to do a nice job on the sheath if there's insulation (which burns) behind the metal. I like insulating and then riveting a patch over top. And don't drill into the jacket! Also, whatever you do, don't pressurize a suspected leaking dimple jacket...if it IS leaking from a dimple weld failure, then if you pressurize the jacket, it can cause a bunch of other dimple welds to fail, and then you have a lot of stainless scrap!

Good luck

Tried that. They claim their warranty only covers repairs. They're offering a replacement if I pay shipping which is absolute BS if you ask me. I have to go the repair route I think as I don't have a month to wait around sending tanks back and forth across the country.

Thanks for the tips. I'm hoping we can find it with out too much trouble. Welder comes tomorrow so we'll see.

[gagners]

Who is the manufacturer?