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Montucky Brew
09-11-2014, 01:00 PM
Ok, so we are having the local beer distributor run or trunk line and set up our draft system for us. They have done about 95% of all the draft systems in town but they have never done one directly from a Bright Tank. The main guy is not sure how that works when the the tanks are not in a cold room (our tanks are not in a cold room and will be gylcol cooled). He was worried that when you pull each individual line down and out of the main truck line itself that even if you put insulation on that line that the temperature difference will still cause problems (foaming) at the tap. I know this can be done because I have seen it before but not sure exactly how to do it properly. Any info helps!

Thanks,
Joe Moore
White Dog Brewing

Starcat
09-11-2014, 01:24 PM
Joe, without knowing more specifics about your system, every trunk line I have worked with is glycol cooled with a standalone power pack style unit. 2 lines in the trunk are reserved for this purpose and you put a u bend at the far end to return the coolant back to the chiller.
It does need to have its own cooling unit and you control to around 30F. The chiller is located close to the walk in cooler or in your case the origin point of your draft lines. You must have a consistent temp in the bundle. The bundles we use are of course made to order and well insulated.
I would think this arrangement through very carefully as it sounds problematic with respect to the quality and consistency of your pours.

lhall
09-11-2014, 02:55 PM
Interesting question - you might have to take the glycol loop all the way to each tank and back out, like a daisy chain, and then insulate it well. You probably don't want to leave it uncooled.

Montucky Brew
09-11-2014, 03:31 PM
Ok so attached is a basic layout of the building with equipment shown. Basically we were thinking that the trunk line would run above the bright tanks(2 15bbls and 4 7bbls) and over the bathrooms to the where the bar is and then right down to the tap. Like I said, ive seen this done but maybe the knew something ahead of time that we dont and did something different? Not sure. How is something like this normally done without being in a cold room?

gitchegumee
09-11-2014, 05:54 PM
I've done this several times, but from cold rooms. Basically no different if you consider your BBT cladding as the outside of your cold room. First you must select your line size based on standard draft line pressure considerations. You will want to use a snake/python/bundled trunk line. Many companies sell this. I like to install this in inside PVC tube for support and extra vapor barrier. Typically for a same-floor bar, your installation would have no significant head gain/loss, so you would calculate based more on size vs. restriction through the length of your tap line. Then place your glycol line chiller with a run either from the bar, or from the BBTs--your choice. The chiller itself may be somewhat remote from the actual trunk line--just insulate the two glycol lines well to the point of use. If from the bar, then you would run the trunk line with blue (supply) and red (return) glycol tubes and your six product lines to the BBTs. Plan for a glycol loop to run in & out from every tank. At the first BBT on the run, you open your trunk line to get your corresponding product line for that BBT. Also splice your red and blue glycol lines with a loop to follow this single product line all the way to the BBT product outlet and back again. Red there & back; Blue there and back. You would use a 180 degree return bend as Starcat mentions at the BBT product outlet. Do this for all six BBTs. The glycol temperatures will all be about equal even though the blue line on the last tank has gone through five other lines, the AVERAGE temperature of red+blue remains the same. Monitor the return glycol temperature to assure that you are cooling the lines sufficiently. One problem I've had with this type of installation is that you necessarily include a trap in your beer line by going up & over and then down to the taps. Beer doesn't particularly like this arrangement--especially without a beer pump to maintain pressure above the CO2 saturation pressure. But it can be done and I think you'll have minimal problems if you think the entire installation through very thoroughly. Best of luck and happy tapping!

Starcat
09-12-2014, 06:59 AM
Phillip, outstanding information as always.
I think we get those trunk lines made from " Foxx."
Ours is roughly 80 Ft. and 3/8 tube dia. and we are going up and over and then down and back up slightly like an S curve.
Not ideal but workable.
A separate gas regulator for each tank is advised.


All the best

Montucky Brew
09-15-2014, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the info! Ill pass this along and see what we come up with!

TGTimm
09-18-2014, 12:47 PM
We run an 80' long Banner 8 product trunk to our outdoor serving kiosk. We use Flo-jet pneumatic beer pumps to push the product, as we also pull our taproom taps from the same kegs, about 5'. It would be impossible to balance the system with pressure alone, and even if we were using separate kegs for each, the pressure to push the beer that far would require using mixed gas at very high pressures. The beer pumps are simple, easy to repair/maintain, and the pour from the kiosk taps is the best pour in the area.

gitchegumee
09-21-2014, 07:31 AM
I like beer pumps. Not only do you get better pours from a more constant pressure, but it makes line cleaning an absolute breeze compared to using cleaning pumps, or pressurized tanks and other line cleaning techniques... Unless there are other extenuating circumstances, I would include beer pumps on any installation of this sort.