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  • Leaking Fermenter

    We have a 20bbl fermenter that is leaking glycol. It is an external leak, with glycol leaking out one of the legs.

    From searching on the forums, it seems the usual way to fix this is to locate the leak, cut off the cladding and insulation and weld the leak.

    However in consulting with a local welder the suggestion has been made that we could just weld the legs up. That is weld the adjustable feet onto the legs and permanently close those off. The glycol would then just pool there and once full no more would leak out.

    Can anyone see a problem with this approach?

  • #2
    Most tanks have a weep hole at the bottom of the cone but I am guessing your tank does not and glycol is running down the leg. The problem is you don't know where the leak is and it most likely will continue until all the insulation has absorbed the glycol. Not an optimum situation. If they are good tanks they should just be repaired.

    How old are the tanks and are they under warranty?

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    • #3
      I think you have two choices...

      Either just do not use this jacket, or find a new welder that won't suggest such a bad idea and instead do the job right. You do not want your cladding to fill with glycol. It's supposed to be insulated. It's tough to find these leaks, but there are a few ideas posted elsewhere on this site that may help you. Hope you can get it fixed. Cheers!
      Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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      • #4
        The tank is fairly new. I understand the traditional way of repairing a tank. However I guess I just liked the simplicity of sealing it up. What is the main draw back with this? Would the glycol in the insulation reduce efficiency of the jacket? Or is there another issue?

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        • #5
          That's it...

          You would limit your cooling efficiency. Glycol would have thermal access from the jacket to the cladding. If the tank is fairly new, then you should have the manufacturer fix it. This should never happen. You could make it work--sort of, but you shouldn't have to. Your tank will sweat when crashed and it would generally just be a mess. There is nothing guaranteeing that there isn't another pinhole leak in the entire cladding shell--they are not designed to hold liquid inside under pressure, merely keep a spray out and the insulation dry. And keep the insulation useful as a thermal barrier. I hope that you can get this resolved!
          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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          • #6
            Thanks. I am speaking with another welder this week about repairing it. And the manufacturer has said they will cover the cost.

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            • #7
              I had the same exact thing happen a few months ago with some brand new fermenters, noticed glycol leaking out of the legs.
              The welder I spoke to knew what to do. We cut a 12x12 square out of the skin around the glycol inlet and outlet. After this was exposed we ran glycol and found the leak immediately, he welded it up and good as new (well except for the square cut out of the skin!!)
              Unfortunately this same fermenter is leaking again so I have it scheduled to repeat this process next week.

              Good luck


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                Sounds like crap equipment....

                Done it once and now you have to do it again? Geez Crosley, sounds like "good as new" isn't very good at all! New fermenters should NOT LEAK. Ever. They should have had their jackets pressure tested to at least 1.5 times their maximum rated pressure. And this should be at least 2 bar tested to 3 bar. Just to confirm my sneaking suspicions, are these tanks made in North America? I hope they were really, really cheap! You may wish to hydrotest the jacket before the welder packs up his equipment this next time just to be able to weld whatever comes apart next. Good luck!
                Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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                • #9
                  Yeah I guess "good as new" was a little optimistic.
                  Your suspicions are correct, these tanks are not US made. The tank began leaking this time after a CIP cycle, which tells me that it's a matter of inferior stainless shrinking and cracking over the temperature differentials.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                  • #10
                    Good luck!

                    Seems that you are taking this well. This sort of performance from new tanks drives me nuts. If I install, commission, and use tanks properly, then I do not expect that I will be changing my production schedule, wasting my time, and hiring a welder to come "fix" new tanks. What happens when the failure is to the INSIDE of the tank? If this is right out of the gate, then what happens when these tanks are 5, 10, 15 years old? Sounds like they'll be back on the boat to be recycled into more substandard equipment. Is this really saving any money? As a brewing community, we should demand better. Cheaper products for cheaper expectations. Be careful with heat on these! Might want to investigate a non-heated cleaning schedule to try and extend the life of these. Best of luck and happy brewing!
                    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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                    • #11
                      There are many fantastic made tanks form both China and the USA and they all come with decent warranties and have been quality tested at the factory. But my question is what caused the leak? How is your glycol system set up and is the the reason you have had multiple leaks due to hammering of the jackets or some type of pressure event that is ongoing?

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                      • #12
                        Timin. I do not know what "caused" the leak but I do know that when we repaired them the first time the leak was coming from a crappy weld. It was clearly a case of neglect on the welder a part.
                        I do not know if my glycol system is the culprit but since I only have a 1/3hp line chiller I suspect that it is not this.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                        • #13
                          The trouble is that someone can make a pig awful job of welding up, and providing there is enough metal on the visible side, this can then be ground / polished back until it looks good. However, particularly if the steel is thin, because of the inevitable flexing associated with temperature changes, a crack can develop. This can be exacerbated by poor quality stainless, which can corrode at the slightest provocation, especially if the weld has not been passivated afterwards.

                          As noted in all sorts of discussions, directly or indirectly, thicker stainless costs more, but gives more leeway, and comments about numerous (but not all) Chinese suppliers indicates quality control and perhaps even knowledge of correct stainless welding techniques is poor to non existent.
                          dick

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                          • #14
                            Just to note--we've had the same problem with American-made ferms from an established, highly reputed manufacturer. In our case it was the design of the jacket that was the problem (design as spec'd by the original buyer), and we ended up cutting the entire jacket off and replacing it.

                            The original jacket was a simple one, with no support in the field of the jacket. It would flex with an audible "pop" at about 5 psi. The welds took all the punishment of this flexing. When we got tired of repairing the recurring leaks and replaced the jacket with one that was dimple-welded (not a task for the faint of heart), the problem disappeared. No more flexing with pressure changes, as the dimple welds in the field of the jacket provide plenty of support.

                            Take a careful look at your glycol plumbing: Are all control valves on the inlet side of the jackets? Do you have slow-closing valves or other means of preventing water hammer effects in the glycol system?

                            The outlet side of the jackets should only be closed for maintenance, and then only after the inlet valves have been closed (outlet is last closed, first opened). Water hammer from valves closing too fast can cause transient pulses of hundreds of psi, and no jacket will survive either of these.

                            Not saying your plumbing is the problem, just making sure....
                            Last edited by TGTimm; 11-26-2014, 02:38 PM.
                            Timm Turrentine

                            Brewerywright,
                            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                            Enterprise. Oregon.

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                            • #15
                              The worst cock-up on a tank that I have ever seen came from a major North American manufacturer. It was a bite tank and it leaked beer out from around the sample port (exterior jackets on these were not welded to the port. Neither the manufacturer's crew nor a local guy (who did all the stainless work for the local Pepsi bottler, etc) could find the leak. When that brewery closed the POS went with it. Anyway, the point is, that while I prefer North American or German made equipment, you can't be guaranteed that something crappy won't happen.

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