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View Full Version : Doing our floors RIGHT, Need advice!



Sean W.
12-01-2014, 11:27 AM
Hi folks, I have been reading all of the threads involving brewery floors and trench drains, but every brewery is different, so here is our setup. I would love some advice on doing the floors right from start to finish, everything from cutting the drains to choosing the right floor coat. Obviously cost is a concern but we don't want to cut corners.

Below are some shots of our building and a close-up of the brewery section. The entire building is 40x64 ft. The area we plan to coat for the brewery is approximately 25x25 ft. in the upper right hand corner. We'll have a trench running all the way down between the brewhouse and the first row of tanks. The other side of tanks will just have a hole drain, for now, because of budgetary reasons. If we fill that side up with 20 barrel fermenters later, we'll put another trench on the left side of that. We will to a 4" curb around the top and right side of the brewery area along the wall. I was also thinking of putting a small "speed-bump" style curb around the bottom and right side to keep the water and effluent in the brewery area.

The slab we are working with is really thick. It's a little "wavy", but the area we core samples was 10" of solid concrete.

How do we properly slope our floor? One strategy suggested to us was to cut a 6 ft. wide swath in the aisle between the brewhouse & fermenters, install the trench drain, and re-pour the floor in that area to slope towards the drain. That would still leave us some dead area under the tanks with some low spots, but it would be pretty good.

Or, should we just cut a narrow aisle for installing the trench drain, and then grind the whole floor down to slope towards the trench? We certainly have enough concrete. I don't know how expensive this is though, or if it costs more to grind down than to pour and slope on top of the existing concrete? If we were to pour on top, how thick of a layer of concrete do we need?

Speaking of trench drains, I would be interested in doing the kind that are formed concrete, and getting that coated when we do the floor coat, and then using SS grates on top. Any brands recommended here?

The floor coat we are considering is called Dur-a-Flex (dur-a-flex.com). Looks like they have done some breweries but I need to check their references. Has anyone used it?

Lastly, do people normally install a P-trap at the end of their trench drain? The reason I am asking is, our trench drain will flow out into a lift-station and get pumped to the road. So I have some concern with gnarly smells / germs coming back into the brewery through the drains (this was a problem at the last place I worked that I'd like to avoid).

Feel free to give me feedback on the overall design too, if you see any drains that you'd place differently or add.

Thanks!
Sean





2060820609

briangaylor
12-01-2014, 12:36 PM
I was just about to ask this question in nearly identical format. Nothing to contribute this time but very eager to hear input from others!

Rooh
12-01-2014, 05:39 PM
My 2 cents. Grinding concrete to a uniform slope seems crazy and unlikely. The more of the floor that conforms to drain, the happier you will be. As far as I know there is always a trap at any drain.

Rich DeLano
rich@thebrewinglair.com

nohandslance
12-01-2014, 06:20 PM
We tried it ourselves, Hindsight, I would have spent the extra $5000.00 USD to hire a company that can guarantee a floor, than mop and squegee all the low spots during every brew, transfer, CIP. Gets old after awhile.
Call Cascade Floors in Oregon. They were the most insightful, great customer service. Will use them on our expansion. No more cheap 'do it yourself' from this brewer.

Lance
Tonopah Brewing Co.
Nevada USA
775.997.6411

Sean W.
12-02-2014, 09:14 AM
I'm kind of scared of what Cascade would charge to come to Ohio. ; ) But I will give them a call.

I feel like we can do this with a few contractors: someone to cut and haul concrete, a plumber to install the drains, someone to lay concrete, and then a floor coating specialist. But if anyone knows a contractor that will do it all, and services the midwest, I'd be happy to get their info.

JLL
12-03-2014, 01:40 PM
I would highly recommend Flowcrete. It's a polyurethane epoxy with some impressive specs against heat and chemicals. I know a local regional brewery that has their entire brewery floors coated with it. I used Flowfresh SLB that comes with an antimicrobial mixture in the coating. PM me and I can send you details on their rep.

BeerBred
12-03-2014, 10:27 PM
I would highly recommend Flowcrete. It's a polyurethane epoxy with some impressive specs against heat and chemicals. I know a local regional brewery that has their entire brewery floors coated with it. I used Flowfresh SLB that comes with an antimicrobial mixture in the coating. PM me and I can send you details on their rep.

please post the details/rep for the rest of us. cheers.

JLL
12-05-2014, 05:54 AM
Tyler Larsen
Southeast Regional Sales Manager
Flowcrete North America, Inc.
(423) 791-0197
FlowcreteTL at g mail dot com
www.flowcreteamericas.com

StonyCreekAndy
12-05-2014, 06:58 AM
http://www.stonhard.com/products/stonclad/

Incredible flooring. not cheap, but absolutely great.

Sean W.
12-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Any more advice on how to cut the floor and slope it? That is the part I think we could really use some help on.

obvance
12-06-2014, 10:36 PM
Can you not float new aggregate or quickcrete on existing floor to add slope? Done this with tile floor.

DageraadBen
12-07-2014, 10:39 AM
I opened a brewery of similar size about 7 months ago and I'm quite pleased with how our floors worked out.

We divided the brewery into wet and dry areas, which saved sloping the whole floor. The warehouse and cold storage areas have a couple of floor drains for occasional clean up, but they're not sloped. In the area around the brewhouse and fermentors, we poured a sloped floor on top of the existing slab and separated it from the rest of the building by a low curb. We built a ramp into this area, so we can still wheel a pallet jack up into the wet area. Pouring on top of the slab allowed us to only cut one small slot into the existing floor to put the drainage in, which saves a lot of money on demolition and disposal. I personally wouldn't want to have un-sloped floors under my fermentors. It's hard enough to clean underneath them as it is. Our trench drains were formed in place.

For coatings, we used a relatively inexpensive epoxy for the dry areas, and we used a very expensive polyurethane coating for the wet areas. The product we used is called Sikafloor 22N Purcem, which I understand is similar to Flowcrete. We're only 7 months in, but the coating appears to be virtually indestructible. Aside from some slight discolouration from chemicals, it looks exactly the same as it did the day it was installed. The coating was quite expensive, but it looks like my floors are one thing I'm never going to have to worry about.

Sean W.
12-08-2014, 08:23 AM
I opened a brewery of similar size about 7 months ago and I'm quite pleased with how our floors worked out.

We divided the brewery into wet and dry areas, which saved sloping the whole floor. The warehouse and cold storage areas have a couple of floor drains for occasional clean up, but they're not sloped. In the area around the brewhouse and fermentors, we poured a sloped floor on top of the existing slab and separated it from the rest of the building by a low curb. We built a ramp into this area, so we can still wheel a pallet jack up into the wet area. Pouring on top of the slab allowed us to only cut one small slot into the existing floor to put the drainage in, which saves a lot of money on demolition and disposal. I personally wouldn't want to have un-sloped floors under my fermentors. It's hard enough to clean underneath them as it is. Our trench drains were formed in place.

For coatings, we used a relatively inexpensive epoxy for the dry areas, and we used a very expensive polyurethane coating for the wet areas. The product we used is called Sikafloor 22N Purcem, which I understand is similar to Flowcrete. We're only 7 months in, but the coating appears to be virtually indestructible. Aside from some slight discolouration from chemicals, it looks exactly the same as it did the day it was installed. The coating was quite expensive, but it looks like my floors are one thing I'm never going to have to worry about.

Hi Ben, thanks for all the info. I like the design ideas. How thick did you pour your additional concrete in the brewery area? Does it have to be a certain thickness to keep it from breaking under the weight and abuse it will take?

Also, what are people doing for the slope of the floor drain? I think I have read 1/4 per foot. If we put in a 25 foot drain, that will be a 6.25" slope. Does that sound right?

What is the standard brewery drain piping for hot applications? My plumber is looking at 4" CPVC. It's expensive, like $20 a foot. Is this what most breweries are using?

DageraadBen
12-09-2014, 07:02 PM
I think the minimum thickness for the concrete poured on top of the slab you'll want is 2". You'll cut a slot in the existing floor slab for the trench to sit in. You'll have to cut that slot to get the drainage in, anyway.

If you put the drain in the middle of the trench, then your water will only have to drain 12'6" from either end.

VikingK
12-12-2014, 07:49 AM
http://www.winesandvines.com/template.cfm?section=features&content=139578&ftitle=Retrofitting%20Winery%20Floor%20Drains


Hi folks, I have been reading all of the threads involving brewery floors and trench drains, but every brewery is different, so here is our setup. I would love some advice on doing the floors right from start to finish, everything from cutting the drains to choosing the right floor coat. Obviously cost is a concern but we don't want to cut corners.

Below are some shots of our building and a close-up of the brewery section. The entire building is 40x64 ft. The area we plan to coat for the brewery is approximately 25x25 ft. in the upper right hand corner. We'll have a trench running all the way down between the brewhouse and the first row of tanks. The other side of tanks will just have a hole drain, for now, because of budgetary reasons. If we fill that side up with 20 barrel fermenters later, we'll put another trench on the left side of that. We will to a 4" curb around the top and right side of the brewery area along the wall. I was also thinking of putting a small "speed-bump" style curb around the bottom and right side to keep the water and effluent in the brewery area.

The slab we are working with is really thick. It's a little "wavy", but the area we core samples was 10" of solid concrete.

How do we properly slope our floor? One strategy suggested to us was to cut a 6 ft. wide swath in the aisle between the brewhouse & fermenters, install the trench drain, and re-pour the floor in that area to slope towards the drain. That would still leave us some dead area under the tanks with some low spots, but it would be pretty good.

Or, should we just cut a narrow aisle for installing the trench drain, and then grind the whole floor down to slope towards the trench? We certainly have enough concrete. I don't know how expensive this is though, or if it costs more to grind down than to pour and slope on top of the existing concrete? If we were to pour on top, how thick of a layer of concrete do we need?

Speaking of trench drains, I would be interested in doing the kind that are formed concrete, and getting that coated when we do the floor coat, and then using SS grates on top. Any brands recommended here?

The floor coat we are considering is called Dur-a-Flex (dur-a-flex.com). Looks like they have done some breweries but I need to check their references. Has anyone used it?

Lastly, do people normally install a P-trap at the end of their trench drain? The reason I am asking is, our trench drain will flow out into a lift-station and get pumped to the road. So I have some concern with gnarly smells / germs coming back into the brewery through the drains (this was a problem at the last place I worked that I'd like to avoid).

Feel free to give me feedback on the overall design too, if you see any drains that you'd place differently or add.

Thanks!
Sean





2060820609

Cascade_Floors
12-29-2014, 09:45 AM
If anyone needs anything feel free to call or email me. We travel all over the USA and have done over 80 Breweries 7 of the top 20 Craft Breweries in the nation and i could send you all contact info for everyone.

CHEERS TO ALL GREAT BEER
Chris Klein
541-510-1080 Cell
503-769-6823 office
www.cascadefloors.com

Cascade_Floors
12-29-2014, 09:49 AM
If anyone needs anything feel free to call or email me. We travel all over the USA and have done over 80 Breweries 7 of the top 20 Craft Breweries in the nation and i could send you all contact info for everyone.

CHEERS TO ALL GREAT BEER
Chris Klein
541-510-1080 Cell
503-769-6823 office
www.cascadefloors.com