Better thermometer--or best?

[TGTimm]

The brewers ain't happy, and when the brewers ain't, I ain't happy.

Our thermometers are the problem. Bi-metal probe and dial thermos that require very frequent calibration, are too slow or too fast to react to changes, break easily, wrong scale, etc, etc, etc.

I want to go digital. Our mash tun has two thermowells, one at each end of a helically agitated hemi-clyinder tun. We'd love to have a display on the brewdeck that would read from either or both of the thermowells, preferably using RTD probes. We'd like precision/accuracy of <1 deg. F, preferably <0.5 deg. F, calibratible. Wired or wireless, NEMA 4 enclosure (brewdeck, remember). Then there's the knock-out thermo downstream of the HX. This would need to be a 1 1/2" TC fitting, also high accuracy.

Better yet, how about RTD based thermometers that can "talk" to a cell phone app? We have three (four?) critical sites for temperature reading/monitoring: two in the mashtun and the knock-out thermometer at the cold side of the HX. If we had a way of remotely monitoring these, the brewers would be very happy...for now.

Any ideas welcome. So far, everything I've found is pretty sloppy, accuracy/precision-wise, and mostly aimed at the homebrew market. The Brewbug is intriguing, but, once again, does not seem adaptable to the commercial brewer--but it's an example of what we're looking for.

TIA--

[Starcat]

Choices

The brewers ain't happy, and when the brewers ain't, I ain't happy.

Our thermometers are the problem. Bi-metal probe and dial thermos that require very frequent calibration, are too slow or too fast to react to changes, break easily, wrong scale, etc, etc, etc.

I want to go digital. Our mash tun has two thermowells, one at each end of a helically agitated hemi-clyinder tun. We'd love to have a display on the brewdeck that would read from either or both of the thermowells, preferably using RTD probes. We'd like precision/accuracy of <1 deg. F, preferably <0.5 deg. F, calibratible. Wired or wireless, NEMA 4 enclosure (brewdeck, remember). Then there's the knock-out thermo downstream of the HX. This would need to be a 1 1/2" TC fitting, also high accuracy.

Better yet, how about RTD based thermometers that can "talk" to a cell phone app? We have three (four?) critical sites for temperature reading/monitoring: two in the mashtun and the knock-out thermometer at the cold side of the HX. If we had a way of remotely monitoring these, the brewers would be very happy...for now.

Any ideas welcome. So far, everything I've found is pretty sloppy, accuracy/precision-wise, and mostly aimed at the homebrew market. The Brewbug is intriguing, but, once again, does not seem adaptable to the commercial brewer--but it's an example of what we're looking for.

TIA--

Timm, We are using the Johnson 350 series on the brewhouse. They have been around a long time and are pretty good. The 450 series is much more sophisticated possibly too much. Also with respect to calibration on a thermistor based system, I have to question the need for it because everything becomes relative.Also you have to then have the hand held meter you are calibrating to " calibrated." Some of this might get into realms of taking things to far. Also you have to be able to get your calibration probe exactly where you sensing probe is which can prove difficult. If you have some solid readouts in Key places then any savvy operator will get a feel for when things are " off."
I want to caution everyone about wireless technologies, many of which are proving to be quite dangerous as they are microwave based. Wifi is quite a bit more toxic than people are being told and this information is being suppressed. Microwave food is deadly by the way, and microwaves are antagonistic to all organic biology. We are living currently in a frequency polluted world where everyone " thinks " they are quite happy with all their gadgets, but are they really????

http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/us/en/products/building_efficiency/products-and-systems/commercial-refrigeration/system-modular-control/350controls.html

http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/us/en/products/building_efficiency/products-and-systems/commercial-refrigeration/system-modular-control/system450OLD.html

Even the A419 series is good for readout purposes.

Then there are industrial devices that can be set up as stand alone units. I have one of those on the central glycol well. If you are interested I can get you the info on that one as well as a pic.

I recently had an interesting meeting with Fluke instruments.


All the best

Warren

[almalkin]

We have used RTDs and temperature controllers from Auber Instruments on all of our brewhouse components. The controllers can be used simply for display purposes as well and have a resolution of up to .1 degree C, when used with the PT100 RTDs. We installed the probes in our thermowells using thermal paste, and extension wire to reach our control panel. The wiring is housed in liquid tight flexible conduit, which runs back to the panel. The probe and controller are pretty inexpensive and work really well, the only downside is that they require you to house and wire them unlike the Johnson units which are quicker to plug and play. We calibrate with lab thermometers and/or boiling and ice water.

Here's what we use:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=46

I can take a few pictures if you would like to see the setup.

Good luck!

[TGTimm]

Thermometer, not thermostat!

Let me clarify--I'm looking for thermometers, not thermostats. Our controls work fine.

Our brewmaster wants to be able to monitor our mash and knock-out temps to the nearest degree. All I need to know is what he wants, not why.

As for calibration, water still freezes at 32F, 0C, and I have several very accurate MIG lab thermometers for any other temp. Unless the coefficients of expansion of glass and mercury change, these stay very well calibrated.

Thermister based devices, like RTDs, tend not to change once the device reading them has been calibrated to the particular thermister. The ones we use for our controllers use platinum elements, and are linear to +-0.01 degree F. That level of accuracy is a little more than we need, but considering most household and cooking digital thermometers have accuracies of more like +-2 deg F, RTDs seem to be the way to go.

[soia1138]

You might find something that will fit your needs here. Seems like the type of thing you are asking about. http://www.thermoworks.com/products/logger/

[TGTimm]

Thanks, soia and Water.

So far, these seem to be closest to what we're looking for: http://www.palmerwahl.com/digi-stem-...ermometers.php I guess it's time to give Palmer-Wahl a call and see if they can provide what we want.

I'm still curious about wireless senders that can interface with smart phones. All our brewers use Andriod based phones, so one problem is solved. I use a flip-phone (late Cretaceous) so it doesn't much matter to me. Considering how much time I spend welding, the supposed risks of EMR don't worry me too much. A few microWatts floating around the brewery somehow just doesn't rate with 100 Amps burning through the finger of my glove. I even know the difference between ionizing radiation and electromagnetic radiation. Plus, I live downwind of Hanford NEL. That's really something to worry about.

Thanks for the pointers re: RTDs, Water. All our temperature controllers use them, and ours are all three-wire. I'm aware of the self-compensating nature of these, which is one of the reasons I chose them. Finding RTD based controllers is easy, but there seems to be a dearth of simple thermometers based on them.