Steam Line Sizing? DIY'r

[kappyk66]

How did you size your steam lines? Our initial quote for install was $71K and I nearly laughed the guy out of the building. We've got brand new equipment coming from a very reputable company which means we've got the plans basically laid out for us as if it were paint by numbers... Part numbers for valves, traps, etc, etc, etc... All they have to do is size the supply and return lines based on distance and put the stuff in.

Now I've got 3 other quotes coming in besides the $71K guy. But I'm thinking if I can figure out the sizing for the supple and return that I could crank it out in a few days. If we get a reasonable quote back I'll probably just use that for expediency... But at this point it doesn't hurt to have a fall back plan, naturally we are over budget... I'm handy. I've run lots of NG black pipe and have plumbed more stuff than I care to admit, can weld, can fabricate. I just don't want to screw up and go too big or too small and have issues.

Specs
20BBL brewhouse(not even 10 feet from the boiler), 60 BBL HLT (40-50ft from boiler), 1,200,000 BTU boiler (Columbia MPH30).

Any advice?

[mmussen]

I can't really help you on sizing the pipes, but a warning on doing it yourself. Depending on where you are you may be required to get it installed by someone specially licensed. It depends on where you are and if there are any boiler inspectors in your area. We had to have every piece of our steam equipment installed and inspected before we could fire it.

[kappyk66]

I can't really help you on sizing the pipes, but a warning on doing it yourself. Depending on where you are you may be required to get it installed by someone specially licensed. It depends on where you are and if there are any boiler inspectors in your area. We had to have every piece of our steam equipment installed and inspected before we could fire it.

Yeah, We are "sort of" in that boat. Its kind of a "wink wink; nod nod" situation. Our municipality is grossly understaffed and grossly inept.

I'm 100% confident in my ability to properly install. But not on my ability to size these lines. Worst case scenario I'll spend the coin to run 4" out and 3" back. Maybe swing in to a few other similarly sized brewer's joints and check out their setup. I was just thinking maybe someone in the PB community could lend some expertise. Maybe! Maybe not?!

[AnthonyB]

Yeah, We are "sort of" in that boat. Its kind of a "wink wink; nod nod" situation. Our municipality is grossly understaffed and grossly inept.

I'm 100% confident in my ability to properly install. But not on my ability to size these lines. Worst case scenario I'll spend the coin to run 4" out and 3" back. Maybe swing in to a few other similarly sized brewer's joints and check out their setup. I was just thinking maybe someone in the PB community could lend some expertise. Maybe! Maybe not?!

In my state, boilers and pressure regulated vessels fall under a well funded state agency... Definitely not something to cut corners on.

[NHBrewer23]

My two cents are to work with a licensed installer as steam has zero forgiveness and people will be working all around the piping. With that said, to properly size the piping, you will need to know how many lbs. of steam per hour the brewhouse and HLT will require. This information can be tricky to obtain from some brewhouse manufacturers as they don't always know.

You can always get a few estimates from a couple mechanical installers to see what they would recommend. They are certainly going to want to know how many lbs./h but hopefully they can get you in the ballpark without the data.

[TGTimm]

Another reminder that steam is not the best place to learn DIY skills--a fault in a steam line can lead to disfiguring burns or painful death.

That said, we run an 18 bbl. DCI kettle with external jacket and internal colandria from a 1.25 mbtu 15 psi Columbia WL90 gas-fired boiler. ~65' of 3" black pipe, meticulously insulated, carries the steam. The steam traps are short-coupled with 1" black iron, and the condensate lines are insulated 3/4" copper.

All steam lines have a drain grade back to the boiler. Any low points in the steam lines need steam traps and CR lines.

One point I argued hard for: place the condensate return tank and pump as close to, and, if possible, below, the kettle. This way, you're using gravity and the CR pump to push your condensate, instead of energy from the steam that could be better used in heating wort. Ideally, the condensate side of the steam traps will be at ambient pressure.

In our jurisdiction (OR), an owner can build a steam system with threaded steam lines, but welded lines require a certified pressure vessel welder and inspection.

[ChesterBrew]

I totally agree... I've been in the construction industry for 25 years... steam systems aren't the place to cut costs. It can kill people.

Buy used kegs or something.

[Luch15]

Hey there, we are just up the road from you in Jax, 71K is a completely ridiculous number, feel free to email me your contact info and I will be happy to talk to you about how we set up our 20bbl this summer. Steam lines, chiller lines, traps, valves, return tanks, pumps, yadda, yadda, the whole shooting match for under 20K. All 100% professionally done by licensed contractors.

[Starcat]

Some Considerations

As noted by others Steam is a serious affair and requires certain tenets. Its best to have some experience and someone to consult if you have not set up from scratch and had experience running boilers before.
With that said, you can run a 20 HP system on a 1.5" main header easily.
Spirax Sarco is a good Tech resource for piping of steam systems.

[kappyk66]

As noted by others Steam is a serious affair and requires certain tenets. Its best to have some experience and someone to consult if you have not set up from scratch and had experience running boilers before.
With that said, you can run a 20 HP system on a 1.5" main header easily.
Spirax Sarco is a good Tech resource for piping of steam systems.

Just as an update I've had about 4 other guys come through and the guy today seemed to think he could get it done for around $20K. So that is a hell of a lot better. I believe he said 2" supply and 1.5" return… He certainly didn't do any calculations but basically looked over the schematics we got from the manufacturer and figured that would do it.

What else do you guys have for return and supply as far as size? I understand anything over 2" needs to be welded...

Fact is we just straight up can't afford $71K. So if we have these guys come in and do it all at least it will be done by licensed trades and if we have to adjust we can figure that out after it gets going.

Like I said, our run is pretty short and straight forward. Hopefully this thing will pan out in our favor!