Sake (rice Brew) In The Brewhaus

[swami]

Question.
Does anyone produce Sake in their brewery? If so do you consider this "rice beer?"

According to federal guidlines it appears they consider this beer, but I am still trying to figure out if its allowed in Michigan Regulations. Tech wise there should be no reason it could not be brewed in house with a brewers permit... Any thoughts?

[gitchegumee]

"Beer" is defined by the Feds as containing at least some % barley malt and some weight by hl of hops. Don't know these numbers, but neither barley malt nor hops are present at all in sake. Wish more sake was brewed in the States. Damn fine when done right. Good luck!

[Diamond Knot]

There are MicroSake "Breweries" in the US. I just can't recall where. They must be under a winery license, then.

[MikeRoy]

To my knowledge of these laws after "attempting" to sell cider I made in our pub, sake,cider and mead all fall under winery/beverage manufacturing license.

By legal definiton anything you make with a brewing license has to have 51% barley in it. By this I've seen brewer's make Apple Ale and Mead Ale as long as the majority was barley.

[swami]

Confused

This is what I found on the TBB web site..

http://www.ttb.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/27cfr25.html

Subpart B: Definitions

"Beer. Beer, ale, porter, stout, and other similar fermented beverages (including Sake or similar products) of any name or description containing one-half of one percent or more of alcohol by volume, brewed or produced from malt, wholly or in part, or from any substitute for malt."

So what gives? The feds include Sake as beer "made from malt, wholly or in part or fram any substitute for malt"

[Diamond Knot]

Wow, Swami...........that's certainly revealing. I've always wanted to make Sake and thought it was a winery license.

[gitchegumee]

Well, it's been since 1997 that I learned of the hops/barley malt requirement. I just can't believe they'd change it for the better. Maybe you should ask an ATF field agent? Would be good to know. Thanks!

[swami]

to my knowledge there has never been any law in the US that required hops or percentage of hops. Could be wrong, but that would really be a hard thing to enforce with so many different styles requiring very little to overloads.. and thats not including hop free brew for sorry souls who are allergic to it.. I am sure different states have adopted ordinaces with regards to malt percentages when brewing with fruit, just so your not making wine... I've got a call into my ATF and MLCC but thought I would check out the awesome knowledge of this board first..