hop burst- vs hopstand/whirlpool , +cold crash. is there a temp and time consensus?

[brain medicine]

so most of what i read/hear about hop burst says to go ahead and skip the traditional hop schedule like 60m, 15m, 5m. the burst seems to typically be a small (10-20%) 60m bitter addition (or no bitter at all) and then drop all the hops in at the end of boil- anywhere from 20m down to flameout.

the issue im having trouble wrapping my head around is the with is the cold crash- alot of what i've heard and read about hop bursting says to cold crash immediately to lock in flavor/aroma.

but i've personally done a few batches that were basically only hopstand/whirlpool hops ( used a small 60m bitter addition). id kill the flame, then toss them in at 205F, let it run down to 180F, then cold crash. i usually do 30 minutes, but have gone as long as 60 minutes due to distraction. seemed like i got a ton of flavor with the hopstand/whirlpool hopping, but i dont have a hop burst brew yet to compare it with right now.

so what's the consensus here in terms of hop flavor/aroma? is it better to get a little bit of boil on those hops with a hop burst method? or better doing hopstand/whirlpool? what about doing both? how important is the elapsed time between flameout and cold crash?

[MadHatter]

When I joined this brewery I was appalled to find that the knockout times were around 2 hours for 3.5 bbl, because our HX is homebrew sized. My first batch went horribly. I added 3kg of high alpha hops at flame out, did a 15 minute whirlpool, and then knocked out straight into the fermenter over a 2 hour period. The beer came out approximately 90 IBU, where it should have been around 30. The only solution I had available to me, was to recirculate through the HX back into the whirlpool. This allowed me to accommodate huge late additions without adding IBUs to the beer. Keep in mind that hop oils isomerize above 170F. The longer they are in there above that temperature, the more bitterness, and less flavour you'll extract. IMO shortening that contact time is absolutely critical. You may consider recirculating through the HX to bring down the temp of the wort as quickly as possible in order to capture the flavour and aroma without imparting bitterness

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[brain medicine]

so i guess that's a good point. trying to get down to 170 or so quickly should hopefully help get more flavor/aroma. have you actually pitched hops only/directly into whirlpool to try and maximize flavor/aroma-- or has is just been flameout hops along for the ride down to whirlpool temps?

crashing down to 170ish is actually something i've been thinking we'll need to do regularly as we'll soon be using alot of pils malt, and as i understand DMS/SMS is created above 180. so the time between flameout and getting under that 180 mark should be as quick as possible to avoid latent DMS production, theoretically speaking.

i guess a nice whirlpool in the 170ish down to 150ish range is worth experimenting with for us.