Sungood 3BBL Brewery (Hybrid Design) - Gas Burner Sizing and Vent Size

[SpencerBizzell]

Hi all,

Not sure if someone can assist, but I would like to know what size gas burner I should use and if I should use two burners for direct fired LPG gas heating for my HLT and for my BK.
The HLT is 120Gal and has a HERMS coil in it, and the BK is 154Gal.

We have a outlet on our boil kettle which is in the center of the conical and runs out. So I would say it would be not a good ideal to heat this with direct fire, Sungood will put a heat jacket over this pipe to protect it.
I would guess that we would need two burners so we can put them either side of the pipe so the flame is not directly in contact with the pipe.

These are both Sungood SS tanks.

Then what size vent exhaust should I allow for, there will be a heat shield which goes around the bottom of the tanks where the burners would be located?
You can see the heat shield in the pictures below.


Thanks,
Spencer

[rdcpro]

If you're not concerned with UL or other approval, you can use an impinged jet type burner, and remove the jets in pairs in the locations that would fire on the drain, plugging the holes. The idea is to get a circular flame pattern that avoids direct contact with the bottom drain.

For example, this one:

http://www.glaciertanks.com/Jet_Burners-Jet_Burners_Cast_Iron_880_000_BTU_88_Tip_Propane.html

It requires 12-14 inches clearance from the surface of the kettle, which you may not have, depending on the space below, and how sharp the cone is.

Jet burners typically use pairs of jets, where the flames "impinge" each other. So remove and plug them in pairs.

You can get these with a pilot and flame safety device that shuts off the gas if the pilot fails. I'm not sure what size vent you would require for this application.

Regards,
Mike Sharp

[SpencerBizzell]

Thanks Mike.

UL approval in South Africa I don't think exists, I will chat to our local authorities and find out what is needed.
Our space below the tank is 330mm from the conical point, which then goes up at an internal angle of 150degree's. So effectively the tank bottom is at a 15 degree angle going up from the center towards the outer diameter. The diameter of the tank is 775mm.

Just so I understand with this burner you would place it on the ground to get the clearance and try and remove all the jets in the center, and as advised where the outlet pipe runs.
Placed on the floor This would give us a just under 13inch clearance, not including the height of the burner it's self.

Should we try to elevate the tanks a little more, or would we be fine with this clearance?

Thanks,
Spencer

[rdcpro]

Thanks Mike.

UL approval in South Africa I don't think exists, I will chat to our local authorities and find out what is needed.
Our space below the tank is 330mm from the conical point, which then goes up at an internal angle of 150degree's. So effectively the tank bottom is at a 15 degree angle going up from the center towards the outer diameter. The diameter of the tank is 775mm.

Just so I understand with this burner you would place it on the ground to get the clearance and try and remove all the jets in the center, and as advised where the outlet pipe runs.
Placed on the floor This would give us a just under 13inch clearance, not including the height of the burner it's self.

Should we try to elevate the tanks a little more, or would we be fine with this clearance?

Thanks,
Spencer

I was mentioning UL as an example; there is probably some sort of regulatory approval required.

According to their site, the inner ring is 5 inches or ~ 125mm. The heat zone is a bit larger than that diameter, so you might find you don't need to remove the inner circle of pairs of jets, just the ones going out where the pipe runs.

The middle ring is 12 inches / ~ 300mm. So at that diameter, you should have about an extra 3 1/4 inches or about 80 mm. So 16 inches or 410mm of height at the middle ring. This is probably good enough, but I don't know the height of the burner. The jets are pretty long, though.

However, my understanding of this type of burner is that it needs good airflow from the bottom, and I've never put one near the floor, I used (a much smaller one) up in a frame and the bottom of the kettle was about waist height.

So I don't know for sure if it will work, but you can apply a lot of heat with these. There is another type of jet called a "duckbill" that may have different characteristics that are better for you. Look for a local specialist in burner systems; there are things like makeup air and other safety requirements that should be met.

regards,
Mike

[SpencerBizzell]

I was mentioning UL as an example; there is probably some sort of regulatory approval required.

According to their site, the inner ring is 5 inches or ~ 125mm. The heat zone is a bit larger than that diameter, so you might find you don't need to remove the inner circle of pairs of jets, just the ones going out where the pipe runs.

The middle ring is 12 inches / ~ 300mm. So at that diameter, you should have about an extra 3 1/4 inches or about 80 mm. So 16 inches or 410mm of height at the middle ring. This is probably good enough, but I don't know the height of the burner. The jets are pretty long, though.

However, my understanding of this type of burner is that it needs good airflow from the bottom, and I've never put one near the floor, I used (a much smaller one) up in a frame and the bottom of the kettle was about waist height.

So I don't know for sure if it will work, but you can apply a lot of heat with these. There is another type of jet called a "duckbill" that may have different characteristics that are better for you. Look for a local specialist in burner systems; there are things like makeup air and other safety requirements that should be met.

regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike, we have found a company that we are hoping can assist us.
Would there be any reason why the stainless can't take direct gas heating, Sungood seemed to be fine with it and will supply the heat sheild?

[rdcpro]

Thanks Mike, we have found a company that we are hoping can assist us.
Would there be any reason why the stainless can't take direct gas heating, Sungood seemed to be fine with it and will supply the heat sheild?

I'd have to go with whatever Sungood says. But I can't imagine there'd be a problem with the stainless. You may get carmelizing inside the kettle, if the burner is too hot, but these burners spread the heat out pretty well. You're probably going to have to deal with the carmelizing anyway on your electric elements.

One thing to keep in mind, though. These jets don't have a good turndown ratio, meaning you can't throttle them back all that much. I wish someone made them with a dual cast iron manifold, so I could use all the jets to get close to boiling, and then turn off a percentage of the jets to slowly bring it to full, and maintain a boil. But in your case, if you size the thing big, get to your boil, and then shut off the burner and maintain with electric, you may be good.

Mike

[SpencerBizzell]

I'd have to go with whatever Sungood says. But I can't imagine there'd be a problem with the stainless. You may get carmelizing inside the kettle, if the burner is too hot, but these burners spread the heat out pretty well. You're probably going to have to deal with the carmelizing anyway on your electric elements.

One thing to keep in mind, though. These jets don't have a good turndown ratio, meaning you can't throttle them back all that much. I wish someone made them with a dual cast iron manifold, so I could use all the jets to get close to boiling, and then turn off a percentage of the jets to slowly bring it to full, and maintain a boil. But in your case, if you size the thing big, get to your boil, and then shut off the burner and maintain with electric, you may be good.

Mike

Thanks Mike, makes sense.
We will circulate the wort continuously to try and avoid carmelization, out the bottom conical outlet into the midway tangential inlet, hoping this would work. We will only only initially have 11kw (2x 5500W) of heating elements to start so hoping this will be enough to maintain a rolling boil once at temprature. Time will tell I guess.