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View Full Version : Pump Sizing - Help Needed - 5BBL System



GallowsHillBrew
10-07-2015, 02:06 AM
I need some help with pump sizing.

We will be running a 3 vessel 5BBL Electric system.
8.5 BBL HLT
5BBL MLT
5BBL Kettle

The system is very similar to a Stout setup.
The Stout systems use 3x pumps:
Whirlpool & Transfer: 0.75 HP Thomsen pump
Wort Pump: 0.2 HP, 18 GPM pump (70L/min)
Water Pump: 0.25 HP 15 GPM pump (for keeping the HLT in circulation) (57L/min)

We are looking at the following pumps due to local availability, support and pricing:
Tellarini AL25's for the two small pumps (about 50L/min)
Tellarini AL40 for the large pump (about 140L/min)
http://www.tellarini.com/inglese/prodotti1a_ing.htm
26996

The AL40 is double the cost of an AL25.

What is the minimum recommended pump size for Whirlpool & Transferring?

We may have to run our plate chiller with municipal water for a while and our supplier is recommending we throttle the wort to about 18L/min.
So we will run our small pumps for cooling

SouthHouseBrew
10-07-2015, 09:03 AM
The Tellarini pumps from your link are self-priming. These pumps are great for low-head applications like CIP return, but they are not necessary (and poorly suited, really) for general brewhouse operations. They are more expensive because of their specialized design and higher power requirements, and they don't put out the proper flow/pressures for CIP supply or transfer through a HEX.

All you need for wort movement is a good, sanitary centrifugal pump. Sanitary clamps (TC clamps) are mandatory if you're moving wort/beer post-boil.

5 BBL is an odd size, where standard 1/2 HP sanitary pumps are a little too large, but the homebrew-style pumps are a little too small.

You're sparge liquor and lautering pumps should be the same size. The bigger March pumps should be sufficient: http://www.marchpump.com/ac-5ssb-md/. A great benefit of March is awesome customer service. Give them a call and they will walk you through sizing and selection for your equipment.

For whirlpool/transfer, you could use the same style of pump, but order it with welded sanitary fittings. Using a threaded tri-clamp adapter is not sanitary and shouldn't be used for cold-side pumping applications (which should include wort cooling). I think a larger pump makes more sense, especially if you have long runs to tall fermentors. A larger pump can also serve as your CIP pump if you put it on a cart.

GallowsHillBrew
10-09-2015, 05:57 AM
Hi Kyle - Thanks for the feedback.

The problem is that the Tellarini Pumps are much cheaper than March here in South Africa.
March AC-5 SS head pumps are $1200ea, while Tellarini AL25 SS head pumps are $600ea
(March plastic head AC-5s are going for $600ea)

We will be using the same size pumps for Sparge and Lautering.
I have looked at the pump curves of the AC-5 vs the AL25 and I think we can live with the difference in this application.
27061

What pump / characteristics would you recommend for running through the HEX?
It may be an option to talk to the wine equipment people in our area....
Would you run a March AC5 on the HEX line?

Not a lot of brewery equipment people here.

GallowsHillBrew
10-19-2015, 02:49 PM
Anyone with experience using Lowara pumps?
One of our neighboring breweries are running CEAM70/3/A and CAM120/33/B models...
(http://www.lowara.co.uk/single-stage-pumps/cea-ca-stainless-steel-threaded-centrifugal-pumps/#tabs-0)

To say the least... I am a bit confused.

lucasmiddleton
10-20-2015, 10:35 PM
I am looking in to using a air operated diaphragm pump in the brewery. I will be using it for transfer of wort after the plate chiller to fermenters. Also to transfer beer in to kegs.
Does anyone have any pros and cons of using a diaphragm pump like this? This is the pump I am planning on using. http://www.sotera.com/index.cfm/products/productdetail/?p=522&ps=142

Thanks!

Lucas Middleton
Milton's Brewing

rdcpro
10-21-2015, 09:24 AM
Anyone with experience using Lowara pumps?
One of our neighboring breweries are running CEAM70/3/A and CAM120/33/B models...
(http://www.lowara.co.uk/single-stage-pumps/cea-ca-stainless-steel-threaded-centrifugal-pumps/#tabs-0)

To say the least... I am a bit confused.

Is this for CIP? If so, it's probably a good fit--these pumps have very high head, because they use a closed impeller. However most sanitary pumps I've used or worked on were open impellers, with much lower head, and theoretically less shear. Also, an open impeller is easier to clean. I'm not sure it would be a good fit to pump wort, unless you needed the head pressure for some reason.


I am looking in to using a air operated diaphragm pump in the brewery. I will be using it for transfer of wort after the plate chiller to fermenters. Also to transfer beer in to kegs.
Does anyone have any pros and cons of using a diaphragm pump like this? This is the pump I am planning on using. http://www.sotera.com/index.cfm/products/productdetail/?p=522&ps=142

Thanks!

Lucas Middleton
Milton's Brewing

That pump has an aluminum body that is in contact with your wort/beer. I'd contact the manufacturer to make sure it's suitable, as they make no mention of suitability for food processing/contact. They do make them with polypropylene or pvdf housing, though it's not clear they're ok for food contact. I have a Yamada diaphragm pump that uses polypropylene and santoprene. It's a nice pump. Diaphragm pumps have very low shear compared to centrifugal pumps, so probably a good choice for your application.

Regards,
Mike

mmussen
10-21-2015, 10:20 AM
I am looking in to using a air operated diaphragm pump in the brewery. I will be using it for transfer of wort after the plate chiller to fermenters. Also to transfer beer in to kegs.
Does anyone have any pros and cons of using a diaphragm pump like this? This is the pump I am planning on using. http://www.sotera.com/index.cfm/products/productdetail/?p=522&ps=142

Thanks!

Lucas Middleton
Milton's Brewing

I would double check to make sure the pump is rated as a sanitary pump, I didn't see mention of using it for food or dairy processing. Also you may need to check on using a diaphragm pump for your fresh wort. I have never been at a brewery that didn't have a pump before the plate chiller, and I'm not sure that pump is rated for temps that high.

mmussen
10-21-2015, 10:24 AM
Anyone with experience using Lowara pumps?
One of our neighboring breweries are running CEAM70/3/A and CAM120/33/B models...
(http://www.lowara.co.uk/single-stage-pumps/cea-ca-stainless-steel-threaded-centrifugal-pumps/#tabs-0)

To say the least... I am a bit confused.

A brief look at those pumps makes me wonder if they're sanitary pumps. I didn't see anything on the site in my (very brief) look saying they're designed for food contact. If they are rated for sanitary use they will probably work, although I don't have any experience with that particular manufacture.
You would probably want to get the pump heads with tri clamp fittings welded to the head as opposed to threaded fittings. Wort in threading is not fun...

GallowsHillBrew
10-21-2015, 11:54 AM
The Tellarini pumps are strictly speaking not sanitary due to the head having male thread outlets. The plan is to use them as sparge & lauter pumps. (Regular cleaning will obviously be part of the SOP)
Looking for another pump to whirlpool & transfer & push through the HEX. And maybe to double as a CIP pump.
Our next step is to go via the winery suppliers around here. Proper small scale brewing equipment suppliers are non-existent


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