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britales
04-12-2006, 11:30 PM
We are opening our Pub in a couple of weeks and have a newly installed Perlick 12 tap system. The run is 75+ ft. and we are pushing it with beer gas mix, 2 possibly 3 smooth pours and the rest craft brewed beers- all lines have "beer saviors"! Any advice?
Thanks

gitchegumee
04-12-2006, 11:54 PM
Compressed air-powered beer pumps have worked well for me, both for long runs and for pushing up a few floors. Might be more economical than purchasing mixed gas or blending your own.

bbrodka
04-13-2006, 07:35 AM
This is the best program I have found for calculating/balancing draft systems.
I used it when I installed mine, and they pour perfect, best $99 I spent
There is also allot of reference and troubleshooting material as well.
On Tap, by SellTech
http://www.selltech.com/ontap/draft.php

Properly installing a draft system is more involved then just some plumbing, and this program gave me the answers on the engineering side.

Easy to use too!
You won't be disapointed

(Not affiliated with seller, just a happy user)

Beersmith
04-13-2006, 08:58 AM
If you are going to use mixed gas, make sure you get a McDantim Nitrogen-CO2 blender. In the long run, you will save a lot of money on gas costs compared to buying pre-blended gas. Also, I have seen pre-blended gas that is not the right mix, which can really mess up the beer in all of your kegs/serving-tanks.

lhall
04-13-2006, 11:17 AM
Call Micromatic, tell them what you are doing. Fax them a diagram with dimensions and they will tell you exactly what you need to do. 75 feet is not too far to push with just CO2, it depends on your vertical runs. You will need a glycol system though, plus FOB detectors for blown kegs.

britales
04-13-2006, 07:47 PM
Thanks,
I have glycol and beer saviors on all 12 lines! :)( Blown keg detectors)

bbrodka
04-13-2006, 10:00 PM
Call Micromatic, tell them what you are doing. Fax them a diagram with dimensions and they will tell you exactly what you need to do. 75 feet is not too far to push with just CO2, it depends on your vertical runs. You will need a glycol system though, plus FOB detectors for blown kegs.

This it true, using ontap I was able to determine that with my setup with about 70' of 5/16 trunkline I could use strait CO2 thus I avoided the cost of a blender and nitrogen

My beer distibutors were amazed at what I did, claiming that even the chain bar systems in the area did not even pour as good as mine, an NO beer down the drain = more profit

Note: I do have a regulator for each line, so I could have exact CO2 control for each product

Another note is Constant Keg Tempature, when temp chages even a few degrees, it can cause carbination problems, so try to obtain consistaint temps in your cold room

I had no idea what to do before I installed my system, read alittle therory on the net on the subject, then just used on tap to calculate configuration

gitchegumee
04-14-2006, 12:44 AM
Another advantage of beer pumps is that they may be used to circulate line detergent through the lines. Makes cleaning real easy--toss the coupler into a bucket of cleaner and open the faucet! And pumps may be regulated to any line pressure individually for a great pour--without calculations & line sizes/lengths to calculate and then set in stone forever. Want a stout faucet on one line for a seasonal? Just crank up the pump's air pressure until you get what you want. A low carbonation product? Same thing. You can dial in any serving pressure you like--any time. I installed 24 of them in our cold room to serve all 8 of our beers on three separate floors. And contrary to what you might think, these diaphragm air pumps are very gentle with the beer. Micromatic is a great source for information regarding dispense, including pumps.

Valleybrew
04-14-2006, 01:10 PM
Pumps are definately the way to go in my opinion. I currently have a 75 foot run from serving tanks to taps at bar (on the same floor) and I use beer gas for the dispense. I have a Nitrogen generator and CO2 blender ( we buy bulk CO2). While this set up is nice there are drawbacks. My biggest complaint is that the beer tends to lose carbonation over time, especially the last barrel or so out of the servers. I am using beer pumps at the local sports arena where we also pour our beer and the difference is noticeable in consistancy of carbonaion. Just set the back pressure to what you want and pour away.

bbrodka
04-14-2006, 11:48 PM
Vallybrew, or others
I have not had any experience with beer pumps but was wondering
I would assume you still have to mantain a proper head pressure on your servers to maintain proper carbination, and what happens to slow selling product that is in the trunk line, does it stasrt to loose carbination?
Do the use more gas puimping beer then if you just pushed it with co2 or mixed gas?
Just wondering because they seem to be becoming more common, and I would like to learn more about them
Any good links with pros/cons or other info?

matt
04-15-2006, 12:47 AM
With the pumps, you would use compressed air to operate them, or if you have a nitrogen generater with excess capacity, you can use this.

You still have to maintain head pressure on the kegs, but that's all.
As far as beer left in the lines, if it loses carbonation, you more then likely will just get foamy mess out of the taps. Normally we clear the lines out of beer that has sat over night ever morning before serving. This is to ensure the customer gets a fresh pint. (I would rather waste a pint or two instead of losing a customer) Nothing worse then getting the first pint off a tap that has been sitting for.....days.

As far as information, Micromatic is a good start.

gitchegumee
04-15-2006, 01:00 AM
Yes, you still must have beer in the serving tank with the proper CO2 and/or N2 pressure for the temperature & volumes of CO2 desired. The beer in the line is under additional pressure from the diaphragm pump, so the beer should not lose any carbonation. Same as without a pump. Beer pumps use the same amount of gas as a system without pumps. The pump simply allows you to push this conditioned beer into a pint a long way away (or a high vertical run-or both) without requiring the gas as the sole motive force to push it that far. Pretty much like using an air compressor to push your beer, only it's done through a diaphragm. Here's some reading material from some real pros.
http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer-edu/-cid-88.html
Good luck!

SRB
02-14-2009, 08:38 PM
....Normally we clear the lines out of beer that has sat over night ever morning before serving. ........

doesnt a glycol chilled line solve this problem? If the beer is kept at cooler temp thru the night its as fresh as it was the night before. :confused:

canyon
02-14-2009, 11:36 PM
doesnt a glycol chilled line solve this problem? If the beer is kept at cooler temp thru the night its as fresh as it was the night before. :confused:
Cool temperatures slow down things but time in the line affects the beer in its own unique way. Every line is different in its short or long history of cleaning or not and what has run through it before. If it is a relatively new line cleaned every week and kept cold with a standard filtered beer then many people might not notice much difference in the overnight line beer. If it is an older line that has had a rough service history with unfiltered beers and not too frequent cleanings then anyone can taste the difference. :)

Sulfur
02-15-2009, 08:50 AM
Another advantage of beer pumps is that they may be used to circulate line detergent through the lines. Makes cleaning real easy--toss the coupler into a bucket of cleaner and open the faucet!

Now that is a great idea! I also have a pump setup and have been using a homemade adaptor to push detergent through the lines using tap water. While it gets the job done, I think your idea will be far superior!