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bbrodka
06-05-2006, 08:13 AM
This looks interesting?
Put your beer in bags!
Anyone ever seen or used these?
(Not affiliated with seller)
Beerpouch™
http://www.beerpouch.com/index.html

jarviw
06-05-2006, 10:02 AM
I read through their website.
interesting!

However, most of these pouches more or less impart some plastic taste to the content... I used to do sensory studies in a lab. we put water in these pouches (juice cartons, similar inner lining) over night and then do sensory tests. While most of them don't impart anything strong (in water!), often it is still detectable.

the other thing is, they say it's currently not recycled. for me it's a big issue.

But I think I am going to contact them and see if I can have a sample or two!

Larry Horwitz
06-06-2006, 12:14 PM
also...there is no current manufacturers of an automated filling line. I talked to these guys at the CBC trade show and they were clue less. i asked about automated trials and package airs. They made up an answer. Not a group I'd be interested in doing business with. Looks like they'd just like to have another outlet for their pourpose built package....


IMO anyway

bbrodka
06-06-2006, 11:14 PM
They also are not to affordable

I just thought it was interesting

MDegraff
06-07-2006, 10:48 PM
I always thought the traditional form, fill and seal pouches (i.e. CapriSun or Wyeast smack packs) would make an interesting packaging alternative. Has anyone ever tried putting beer into one of those?

Mike

bbrodka
06-08-2006, 10:45 PM
Brewbrothers
Thanks for chiming in, glad to get some real world feedback
Without actual experience with this product all we can do is speculate
You brought many favorable benifits to light, and confirmed the real world suitibility issues

Thanks for the feedback

I wonder if they offer samples? I would not mind checking them out myself

Larry Horwitz
06-09-2006, 05:50 AM
Unrine on a hydrant? Nice. How much did they pay you for your shamless ad? I asked what their average package airs were like (since you / they or so fired up about the o2 reduction here) and they couldn't even give me an answer that was a package air result....I was told "It's just better"

Whatever. You may be duped but I will not be. I am tired of people make claims about products with nothing to back them up. Use 'em if you like but I doubt you'll see these coming off of anyones package line with beer in them anytime soon.

I also notice you only have 1 post. Who are you? I don't hide my identity here...or my 14 years of brewing experience....are you perhaps the company that produces this product?

jarviw
06-09-2006, 07:14 AM
come on, Larry, let's give them a benefit of doubt. We have not seen any pouched beer (they only distribute in the west coast states). If oxygen level is an issue, I am sure we will be able to detect it in the actual beer.

that said, has any one seen/tried these pouched beer??


bbrodka>
I contacted Kevin Tubbs of Incan Beverage Packaging, they are currently out of stock and expecting the new batch in a week or two. But he's willing to send out a couple samples after that. so try contact them!


I will do some sensory tests and post the results when I get my hands on them.

Steffan
06-09-2006, 07:53 AM
I, too, have been following this thread with some interest. I don't post often, I know, but I have two ears, two eyes, but only one mouth and I try to use them in that 4:1 ratio.

A few years ago when I was a bottling line operator at Orchard Street Brewery in Bellingham we experimented with bags like these. Filling was done by hand, there was no filling/sealing machines available at the time. We did not get to the point where we could test for airs. Reason being, none of the bags survived long enough. The pressure of the carbonated beverage caused the seals to rupture. Also, the bags would delaminate over time, accellerating when in the pressence of peracetic acid sanitizer. Failures were more rapid when the filled bags were stored at room temperature. The manufacturer sent us numerous different samples over the course of six months, each batch being slightly different as it seemed they were trying to develop better bags. However, we were never satisfied with their performance and we discontinued the experiment.

So, there you have another data point of realworld experience.
Brew hard!
Steffan
Aldergrove Brewery
Tulalip, Washington

bbrodka
06-09-2006, 08:05 AM
I also notice you only have 1 post. Who are you? I don't hide my identity here....are you perhaps the company that produces this product?
I also noticed this, but I thought I would be optimistic and wait and see :)

If they got the "goods" and get some samples out to us, I am sure our members will give us an honest option

imabrewer
06-12-2006, 04:27 PM
We tested these bags a few years ago with our beer. We did not find any issues with flavor, or at least anything different than we see with our bottled product. However we went to great pains to make sure there was no air left in the top of the bag. We tried some that we purged with CO2, and others where we jetted the beer to foam it up before sealing the bag. If you are filling these by hand, I don't know that you would have time to do that on each and every bag so I would worry about consistency between bags. As for us, it was a novel idea but they were messy and awkward to fill, and hard to seal sanitarily so we decided it wasn't worth our time for our size of operation. The lack of an automated carbonated beverage filling device didn't help either. We could find plenty of machines that handled juice pouches, but never found one that handled carbonated beverage pouches. On a positive note, aside from no flavor issues, this bag has a hefty double ziplock type seal, one of our guys dropped it from 6 feet off the ground and it didn't bust open and none of them leaked or lost CO2 after 1 month of storage in our test. Get some samples and see what you think, I do believe they have their niche for certain applications.

Curtis

shiva
07-19-2006, 10:23 AM
pricing so to get started with the Brewers Kit it will cost $0.74 per pouch which comes out to $4.44 per sixpack so selling to a store wholesale how much can be made on the beer?

Cheers,

Doug

www.ashevillepizza.com

v2comp
07-03-2009, 07:46 AM
Has anyone continued to use these kinds of packages?
I found another article this morning about a company (looks like the ones that developed the INCAN pouches, as these are also produced in Florida)

they have a tradename CarboPouch TM and some pretty interresting (at least to me) designs.
since im starting out so small, I was wondering if it was a viable option.......

wiredgourmet
07-03-2009, 09:20 AM
Is anyone else wondering how the end user is supposed to get to grips with a carbonated beverage in a flexible container? Numerous low-comedy scenarios suggest themselves...

v2comp
07-03-2009, 02:44 PM
Is anyone else wondering how the end user is supposed to get to grips with a carbonated beverage in a flexible container? Numerous low-comedy scenarios suggest themselves...

leave it to an Irishman to suggest something about this thing is Funny.....;)

South County
07-03-2009, 07:01 PM
I forgot about this post....Not only is this pouch concept a bad idea it is a demeaning one to craft beer period. I personally think its about as bad a pizza push-pop. Leave children's fruit drinks to pouches (capri sun comes to mind) and beer to cans and bottles. I think I read a comment about the "bottom line" and while that is always and important part of business these so called "innovations" are what drive companies public and corporate. Once again change for the sake of innovation is never good. It is always premature and forced and the end user gets screwed.

v2comp
07-03-2009, 08:38 PM
I forgot about this post....Not only is this pouch concept a bad idea it is a demeaning one to craft beer period. I personally think its about as bad a pizza push-pop. Leave children's fruit drinks to pouches (capri sun comes to mind) and beer to cans and bottles. I think I read a comment about the "bottom line" and while that is always and important part of business these so called "innovations" are what drive companies public and corporate. Once again change for the sake of innovation is never good. It is always premature and forced and the end user gets screwed.

Well, why I will agree that the idea of innovation for innovations sake is a bad idea, I would hardly call it demeaning. This is just Beer after all, not pure liquid erection or anything....lol
I also think that if it were that simple then we should all just go back to drinking our beer out of clay pots and only let women brew it. I guess using that same rationale, you must believe that the state of the art in beer packaging has already reached its peak and therefore we shouldnt bother ourselves with trying to create anything else because it cant exist:rolleyes:
sometimes these things do turn out badly, but to say off hand that the idea isnt sound just doesnt ring true.
I may not use them, but I am at least going to sample them and see if they work or not in the real world. if not then I'll just get back to work on my computer program and devices that wirelessley connect with our brains and allow us to have the sensory perception that we are drinking beer and that we are getting a buzz when really its all in our mind. think of the possibilities, no more DUI's, no more cans, bottles or plastic tubes to throw out the car window. just swipe your CC and download a nice Alaskan Smoked Porter or Bell's two Hearted ale and get back to work.:D

South County
07-04-2009, 06:58 PM
Well, why I will agree that the idea of innovation for innovations sake is a bad idea, I would hardly call it demeaning. This is just Beer after all, not pure liquid erection or anything....lol
I also think that if it were that simple then we should all just go back to drinking our beer out of clay pots and only let women brew it. I guess using that same rationale, you must believe that the state of the art in beer packaging has already reached its peak and therefore we shouldnt bother ourselves with trying to create anything else because it cant exist:rolleyes:
sometimes these things do turn out badly, but to say off hand that the idea isnt sound just doesnt ring true.
I may not use them, but I am at least going to sample them and see if they work or not in the real world. if not then I'll just get back to work on my computer program and devices that wirelessley connect with our brains and allow us to have the sensory perception that we are drinking beer and that we are getting a buzz when really its all in our mind. think of the possibilities, no more DUI's, no more cans, bottles or plastic tubes to throw out the car window. just swipe your CC and download a nice Alaskan Smoked Porter or Bell's two Hearted ale and get back to work.:D

I'm sure the technology and concept work perfectly...To reference clay pot containers is a bit of stretch considering the chronological proximity of glass to cans to pouches is far more relevant. Look if you like the idea of drinking beer from a pouch go for it but this packaging isn't going to take the beer world by storm. I know for many (including myself) there is a nostalgia and tradition with bottles (and cans for that matter). I'm sure there could be 20 other container technologies that may suit. however I can't see a single GRAND advantage and from what I can tell they are definitely not cheaper. According to their pricing the 16 oz pouch runs 46 cents, unless there is larger bulk pricing not listed. I can assemble a cap, bottle, and label for less than that and the package presents far nicer. The other issue is that I'll bet this package can't be recycled. No where on the site does it mention it and in fact distracts from the issue by telling you what you can put into it after its empty. Most facilities sort out and won't accept plastic bags, foil lined plastic containers, etc and these pouches are the worst of both, aluminum bonded between two layers of polymers. And this Aseptic claim, while technically true, relative to the beverage industry glass and cans perform just as well. All it takes is one bacterial contact point on a filler machine and a pouched product would be affected as well.

My point is that glass works well, very well actually considering that glass is 100% recyclable. Many don't know that silica sand, soda ash, and limestone use far less fossil fuel to mine and refine (little is needed since that glass already has a high recycle rate) compared to tons and tons of rock that must be moved for a few pounds of aluminum. These pouches are definitely not advancing anything, they've been around for years, just not in the beer world. All I can see is someone trying to shave a buck or two out of an industry that is just fine where it is for now.

Larry said it more eloquently

Not a group I'd be interested in doing business with. Looks like they'd just like to have another outlet for their pourpose built package....

When the pinnacle of beer packaging arrives or a major step shift in container tech, I can think of a few companies that will be the first to shove it down everyone's throats. I'm sorry I struck a nerve with the beloved pouch container, I'll try to refrain in the future.

v2comp
07-05-2009, 06:48 AM
I'm sure the technology and concept work perfectly...To reference clay pot containers is a bit of stretch considering the chronological proximity of glass to cans to pouches is far more relevant. Look if you like the idea of drinking beer from a pouch go for it but this packaging isn't going to take the beer world by storm. I know for many (including myself) there is a nostalgia and tradition with bottles (and cans for that matter). I'm sure there could be 20 other container technologies that may suit. however I can't see a single GRAND advantage and from what I can tell they are definitely not cheaper. According to their pricing the 16 oz pouch runs 46 cents, unless there is larger bulk pricing not listed. I can assemble a cap, bottle, and label for less than that and the package presents far nicer. The other issue is that I'll bet this package can't be recycled. No where on the site does it mention it and in fact distracts from the issue by telling you what you can put into it after its empty. Most facilities sort out and won't accept plastic bags, foil lined plastic containers, etc and these pouches are the worst of both, aluminum bonded between two layers of polymers. And this Aseptic claim, while technically true, relative to the beverage industry glass and cans perform just as well. All it takes is one bacterial contact point on a filler machine and a pouched product would be affected as well.

My point is that glass works well, very well actually considering that glass is 100% recyclable. Many don't know that silica sand, soda ash, and limestone use far less fossil fuel to mine and refine (little is needed since that glass already has a high recycle rate) compared to tons and tons of rock that must be moved for a few pounds of aluminum. These pouches are definitely not advancing anything, they've been around for years, just not in the beer world. All I can see is someone trying to shave a buck or two out of an industry that is just fine where it is for now.

Larry said it more eloquently


When the pinnacle of beer packaging arrives or a major step shift in container tech, I can think of a few companies that will be the first to shove it down everyone's throats. I'm sorry I struck a nerve with the beloved pouch container, I'll try to refrain in the future.

Well said, and no nerve was struck......just commenting, and I do appreciate the conversation about these and other types of pkgs.
and to your point about the entire industry or consumers not embracing these plastic pouches on an huge scale actually is more of a positive than a negative as far as im concerned and the reason I was considering trying them in the first place. if I were one of 100 other plastic pouched beers sitting in the cooler shelves, there would be no distinction practically speaking between my package and everyone elses. and as far as that goes, I havent and still may not use them myself, but I will try them and see if they are worth using at any level.
dont take what I said the wrong way, I really was just looking for others opinions and experiences as it seems to have been a while since anyone had commented on them.
thanks for your insight, it did give me several things to think about.

South County
07-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Well said, and no nerve was struck......just commenting, and I do appreciate the conversation about these and other types of pkgs.
and to your point about the entire industry or consumers not embracing these plastic pouches on an huge scale actually is more of a positive than a negative as far as im concerned and the reason I was considering trying them in the first place. if I were one of 100 other plastic pouched beers sitting in the cooler shelves, there would be no distinction practically speaking between my package and everyone elses. and as far as that goes, I havent and still may not use them myself, but I will try them and see if they are worth using at any level.
dont take what I said the wrong way, I really was just looking for others opinions and experiences as it seems to have been a while since anyone had commented on them.
thanks for your insight, it did give me several things to think about.

Hey man, glad to here your point of view...interesting topic none the less...lets all have a cold one while the next innovation trots down the pipe line!

v2comp
07-06-2009, 04:54 AM
Hey man, glad to here your point of view...interesting topic none the less...lets all have a cold one while the next innovation trots down the pipe line!

How cool would it be if I sent you a couple of my beers in some of my sample pouches and you can call me when you get them and we can open them at the same time and sample the product.....lol:D

LokeBrewSF
07-08-2009, 09:52 AM
pricing so to get started with the Brewers Kit it will cost $0.74 per pouch which comes out to $4.44 per sixpack so selling to a store wholesale how much can be made on the beer?

Cheers,

Doug

www.ashevillepizza.com

Wow, that is a ridiculous amount of money on packaging, doesn't even include all of the other costs. Doesn't really even seem worth considering at that price.

TGTimm
01-20-2015, 09:08 AM
..." When was the last time you packaged your beer in an environment where oxygen or light was stopped from destroying flavor?"....

Well, how about every time I run our doulbe-evac bottling line, with amber glass bottles? I can and do measure package gasses, and I find our <0.5 cc of air/bottle to be fine. Our product lasts quite well in storage--as well as any ale can be expected to.

Just pointing out: Brewbrothers, 1 post aggressively plugging a product; works at a brewery (Brewnorth) that Google hasn't heard of.
Traditionalist, 1 post, same, works for a brewery that seems to be an Aussie beer blog or a beer made by several other breweries.

I will disagree with one of the posters above--amber glass may be recyclable, but is very rarely recycled as it is generally lumped with all other colored glass and its main use is aggregate in concrete and asphalt. Out here, it goes straight from the recycling center to the dump. But, considering how frequently I find nearly indestructible aluminum-laminate-plastic drink pouches scattered along roadsides, trails, wilderness areas, streams, etc, I'll stick with glass--at least we (Oregon) do have a deposit on glass and aluminum carbonated beverage containers, which actually works fairly well (except for blue beer cans--what's with that?). If I could find a cheap way to quality-control fill level in aluminum bottles, I'd switch immediately--aluminum is nearly 100% recyclable.