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Replacing a seal C114

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  • Replacing a seal C114

    Our vorlauff pump hasn't had a problem in years, and now I can't get it apart. I can't get the keeper for the impeller off. All I remember is that this is stupid easy, and the folks at CPE used to have a tutorial on it.

    Having a senior moment....
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  • #2
    Is this it?????

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Scott--that was what I was looking for. Unfortunately, it turns out that I do remember how to service that seal--the problem is different.

      I think I've figured it out--the pump backing and the impeller are stuck too far forward for the little retaining pin to be removed, and the impeller is grinding on the face of the pump back. It seems to be due to our extremely hard water (again) and the water-washed external seal. Since this is our vorlauff/transfer pump, it's moving fairly warm wort, and the water that's washing the seal has left lime deposits on the seal and especially the spring that are forcing the seal and pump back forward. It's soaking in an acid bath right now, so we'll see. I guess I have to add something else to my acid-washing regime.
      Timm Turrentine

      Brewerywright,
      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
      Enterprise. Oregon.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, wrong again.

        This pump has not been part of our CIP loop--I was utterly unaware of this. The impeller was glued onto the shaft, the backplate had come loose....

        I'm going to need new seals and a new (or resurfaced) backplate.
        Timm Turrentine

        Brewerywright,
        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
        Enterprise. Oregon.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, glad you found it and that I only had to do the easy part from my livingroom... :-)

          Comment


          • #6
            Our brewers' reasoning was that, being on the hot side, it didn't need CIP. Wrong again.

            New backplate: $165. Backplate resurfacing: $45. I'm going with both, as I have two more of these nice little pumps and like having a backup backplate.

            But the world's easiest pump to work on became a two-day nightmare to just get apart and get clean.
            Timm Turrentine

            Brewerywright,
            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
            Enterprise. Oregon.

            Comment


            • #7
              Tutorial

              Hi,


              I think this is the link you are looking for. It is a YouTube video on how to set up the seal on the C114MD pumps, same procedure for the larger ones too.

              http://www.cpesystems.com/blogs/news...14-series-pump
              Your CPE Systems Team!
              CPE Systems Inc.
              800-668-2268
              CPEsystems.com
              Thinkpumps.com
              sales@cpesystems.com

              Comment


              • #8
                C114 parts

                By the way we only charge $122 for the back plate.

                http://www.cpesystems.com/collection...ant=5237969924

                Click image for larger version

Name:	C114 Backplate.JPG
Views:	1
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ID:	190983
                Your CPE Systems Team!
                CPE Systems Inc.
                800-668-2268
                CPEsystems.com
                Thinkpumps.com
                sales@cpesystems.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks, folks--I'll keep that lower price in mind next time.

                  Well, the new backplate came without the little "hooks" that anchor it to the pump frame, so I removed them from the old plate and managed to shear one off while tightening it--obviously, while over-tightening it. So it's back to the shop for a fix.

                  The reason I think I need to readjust the seal spring is that I'm not able to get the impeller to sit far enough back on the shaft for the retaining pin to lock into place, even after a thorough cleaning. Correct me if I'm wrong here!
                  Timm Turrentine

                  Brewerywright,
                  Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                  Enterprise. Oregon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Adjust the whole drive shaft

                    Timm-

                    I had a similar issue with a C114 pump.

                    I solved it by shifting the whole shaft assembly forward by a hair. If you look at the second picture (part diagram) on the link in message #8 above, loosen the set screw (6A) on the shaft (6) that attaches to the motor stub. Loosen the set screw(s) (80K) on the collar (80L) so you are not fighting any spring pressure.

                    Now, slide the whole shaft forward by a few mm. (Make sure the back plate is snugged on correctly.) put in the pin, slide on the impeller and turn it 90 degrees so you hear the pin lock into place. Now, put a business card behind the impeller, between it and the backplate as a spacer. Gently press the whole assembly back and tighten the 6A set screw. Pull the card out and check that the impeller rotates nice and smooth without contacting the back plate. Then push the 80L drive collar forward from behind, back off 1/32", then tighten the sets screws like in the video link in post #7.

                    (Jim McCormick, the fellow from Top Line in the video is a great guy, by the way. He is the one who talked me through the above procedure the first time I did it.)

                    I hope that makes sense and good luck!

                    Cheers- Mike

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You don't need this hooks

                      Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                      Thanks, folks--I'll keep that lower price in mind next time.

                      Well, the new backplate came without the little "hooks" that anchor it to the pump frame, so I removed them from the old plate and managed to shear one off while tightening it--obviously, while over-tightening it. So it's back to the shop for a fix.

                      The reason I think I need to readjust the seal spring is that I'm not able to get the impeller to sit far enough back on the shaft for the retaining pin to lock into place, even after a thorough cleaning. Correct me if I'm wrong here!
                      Just an FYI, those little hooks on the back side of the faceplate are only there to help you get the pump re-assembled. They're not needed for proper operation. Our smaller 114's have them, but larger 216's with 8" impellers don't. The large clamp is what holds the faceplate in place during operation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hmmm... should'a thought about that. I guess I just wasted $s and time getting them replaced.
                        Timm Turrentine

                        Brewerywright,
                        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                        Enterprise. Oregon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What a PITA.

                          It took lots of cleaning to be able to get this pump back together, a new backplate, and some frustration.

                          When I've had to replace a seal on one of these, I've torn out the old one and stuck a new one in there. About five minutes. But this time, I took the seal out and waited for over a week for parts. No instructions. Sure, there's CPCs tutorial on adjusting the seal, and an exploded parts diagram, but no actual assembly instructions.

                          My problem hinged around the o-ring. According to the diagram, it goes behind the seal. I tried that and couldn't get the follower to seat in the groove of the seal holder. Lots of cussing. Turns out, the o-ring goes in the groove in the back of the seal, then the seal/o-ring on the shaft. Now it goes together.

                          It sucks when something is so simple that no one has bothered to write instructions for us idiots.
                          Last edited by TGTimm; 04-30-2016, 03:03 PM.
                          Timm Turrentine

                          Brewerywright,
                          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                          Enterprise. Oregon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yup, git, but thanks, Marko.

                            The problems were a very dirty pump and a very rusty memory.
                            Timm Turrentine

                            Brewerywright,
                            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                            Enterprise. Oregon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Never seen a Video

                              Timm, your wet wash seals last well, thats why memory fades.
                              By the Waukesha manual, if you take 2 each .060 feeler guages and put in between the impeller and the back plate during setup, THEN lock down the shaft extension on the motor shaft, you will have the correct clearance impeller to backplate when the housing is installed with the clover clamp. This can actually be seen if you look in through the discharge port.
                              For C-114 most of our drive collars are set tighter than the 9/16" the book recommends, so 1/2". That goes in the realm of extreme duty with zero speed control and myriad of abusive operators. The drive collar setscrews are undersized and due to being SS have to be torqued carefully or they will gore the inner hex surface.
                              Warren Turner
                              Industrial Engineering Technician
                              HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
                              Moab Brewery
                              The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

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