Using jacketed Fermentor to finish Knockout

[Redsilo]

Our ground water temp is 74 +/- degrees is the summer, we are considering knocking out to 78 then transfer to jacketed fermenter and using the glyco to bring to pitching temp. Any comments would be appreciated.

Jim

[mikeyrb1]

Our ground water temp is 74 +/- degrees is the summer, we are considering knocking out to 78 then transfer to jacketed fermenter and using the glyco to bring to pitching temp. Any comments would be appreciated.

Jim

Why not get a heat exchanger w/glycol.

[soia1138]

Our ground water temp is 74 +/- degrees is the summer, we are considering knocking out to 78 then transfer to jacketed fermenter and using the glyco to bring to pitching temp. Any comments would be appreciated.

Jim

We used to do that when it was the only option, then we got an appropriate heat exchanger with a second glycol stage. It will work for you but a word of caution, set the jackets higher than you want. With no fermentation activity in the tank you will tend to overshoot your cooling and end up cooler than expected.

[Bainbridge]

Because that's expensive and brewers gotta do what they gotta do.

There's no problem doing that, but you might consider waiting to pitch yeast. For example, we can't get lagers down cool enough to pitch off our heatx so in they go as cold as we can, use the glycol in the tank to finish cooling, drop cold break out the cone and pitch.

[dick murton]

I don't disagree that having a chiller with a glycol section is a possibility, but it requires the chilling system to have a fair bit of spare capacity to allow for the instantaneous chilling required. It may be possible to simply add a glycol section to the existing wort chiller instead of buying a new PHE.

So I would also consider a chilled liquor tank, about 1.3 times the brewed volume, fill it up one day, chill slowly overnight and use to chill the wort. I have not done a chilling system capacity comparison, but if there is already a chilling system and it has some spare, but perhaps no much capacity - which is indicated by the proposal to carry out final chilling in FV, then this probably puts less strain on the chilling system compared to adding a glycol section to the wort chiller.

Downsides? Cost of, and space for a tank and basic temperature controls, pump and piping etc.

[dmartin]

If you have a home brew plate chiller lying around you could put that in your glycol loop so you can pre chill your knockout water. It would put a little less stress on the glycol chiller as it is only chilling your 74• water. And you could likely set this up for as close to free as possible


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[barleyfreak]

Our ground water also rises to ~74 in the summer. We installed a pre-chiller off the end of our glycol loop to chill the water down during KO. I also turn the jackets on on the empty FV while running the sani loop which helps a little to get the receiving vessel temp down. And I make sure no other FV is calling for glycol when knocking out. But I still only get down to around 66 with that, which is fine for our ale yeasts.

[mmussen]

I've had to knock out at similar temp and use jackets to cool the wort the rest of the way to fermentation temp.

Personally I'd recommend adding yeast during knock out even when the temp is too high, for a couple reasons - 1 the oxygen you add to the wort won't stick around forever and depending on timing you may be low on O2 when you finally pitch. 2 Cool oxygenated wort is pretty much the perfect breeding ground for any bacteria that might have made it into the FV. I'd rather have yeast in there doing some work than nothing.
Worst I've ever had to do is knocking out a cream ale that fermented at 60 at about 74. Didn't have any noticeable flavor changes from cooling with yeast in the wort.

[Beer_Nut]

So I would also consider a chilled liquor tank, about 1.3 times the brewed volume, fill it up one day, chill slowly overnight and use to chill the wort. I have not done a chilling system capacity comparison, but if there is already a chilling system and it has some spare, but perhaps no much capacity - which is indicated by the proposal to carry out final chilling in FV, then this probably puts less strain on the chilling system compared to adding a glycol section to the wort chiller.

I worked in a brewery before that was not brewing at capacity and was able to use one of the existing fermenters as a cold liquor tank. But it was a 40bbl tank and 20bbl brewhouse.

[Todd Hicks]

Around 78F isn't a real problem. Your fermenter will knock it down by the time fermentation begins. Insure good oxygenation. Save towards a secondary glycol hx whe you can afford one or replace the single pass with a double pass hx.

In a very much less than ideal 10 bbl brewpub in hot Florida, my water temp always ran around 88F in the spring/summer/fall. 50% of production was a lager turned over every 25 days and three ales turned over on 14 day cycles. I had only two 10 bbl fermenters. Lager yeast was Urquell strain WY2278 Czech fermented at 48F. Ale was normally CL170 British Ale. Pitched yeast to acclimate to temp in the fermenter early in the brew day, cooled at best temp the hx could drop 88F with good oxygenation throughout most of cooling. Set ale initial temp to 70F and when I came in the next day dropped temp to 65-68 to tame a vigorous fermentation blow off. On lager, set initial temp to 65F until next day and then slowly dropped temp to 48 by throttling back the glycol solenoid isolation valve. On day three, opened valve back to full position. Ferment until time to spund and raise temp to diacetyl rest at 68F. Crash cool, filter, serve at the last minute. Always had excellent fermentations and quality even with that system's shortcomings. A little sulfur would persist for maybe 24 hours, but it would scrub away with a little injection through the serving tank carb stone to bump up CO2 volumes lost in filtration.

Every brewery is different so your mileage will vary.

[foestauf]

Just get a cold liquor tank or use that FV as one. You won't use as much water if it's going in at 38 degrees.

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