cleaning under pressure

[Fred Scheer]

HI:

Just wondering how many of you cleaning (CIP) under pressure or not.
What's the advantage of each, if any..................

Thanks
Fred

[dick murton]

Cleaning under pressure is only really sensible when using acid detergents, as when using caustic, the caustic mops up so much of the CO2 that there is a risk of actually sucking in vessels unless you have decent antivacuum systems fitted and believe me, you aren't popular when you suck in and destroy a 1000 hl + tank. The other problem is that the caustic then becomes largely ineffective as it will, under sufficient excess of CO2, be converted to the bicarboante ion, which is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard to clean with. Obviously this is not so much of a problem if you are using nitrogen as a top pressure gas instead of CO2, but even this will contain some CO2.

It becomes most cost effective to use acid detergents in bright beer tanks and mains, though there are now some quite effective ones which will work on high protein residues such as th yeast rims round FVs. However, many people still carry out a preliminary caustic wash to remove the bulk of the soil first.

If you use acid detergents in bright beer tanks, this means you should use less gas, because you do not have to carefully purge the tanks each time before refilling, and if you can get the back pressure control valve set correctly, then you don't have to use as much gas to repressurise. It could also be considered safer as you do not have to vent off to outside, or have special extraction fans & gas monitoring systems.

In a small brewery though, I am not sure that you will ever recoup the cost of saved gas on the expense of non return valves in the supply and back pressure valves in the return lines. And in spite of this, I still advise caustic cleaning every few weeks, as caustic is still better than acid ar removing protein scale.

Brain dump continuing... If your tanks are pressurised and you are cleaning hot, then ensure you have decent pressure relief valves, which will vent off safely, and not spray anyone, and then you absolutely must have antivac valves fitted to prevent implosion when the cold rinse water hits the tank.

Apart from that...

cheers

[BigWilley]

I CIP my serving tanks under pressure every other time with Acid Brite from Birko. Every other time I open them up and use PBW. Saves much time and CO2. The servers dont get very dirty anyway (I dont ever CIP under pressure on a tank that had unfiltered or hefe in it) and the acid does a nice job as far as I can tell. I have done many acid washes not under pressure so I know its clean. I dont have any fancy valves other than the standard prv/vacuum. I hand adjust the butterfly valves. The hardest part is heating the tank up slowly without building the pressure too high. I have to shut the hot water off quite a few times and constantly monitor the outlet. Occasionally the pressure relief will blow some gas off during the rinse. Its worth it to me but I wouldnt highly reccomend it unless you really need to save time/CO2.

[Fred Scheer]

another question

What is the effect on the pump, i.e., CIP under pressure or not.
Do changes in headpressure on the pump (through pressure...)
change the spray effect?

Fred

[BigWilley]

As I am not in the tank during Under Pressure CIP I honestly can not tell you. I can say that it sounds normal and the pump runs normally.

[dick murton]

Normally sprayball manufacturers talk about the cleaning effect / throw at a given pressure differential, such as 15 to 25 psi. In other words, if you increase the ambient pressure in the tank, the delivery pump discharge pressure will have to be raised by an equivalent amount to maintain the differential.

[BigWilley]

Cipup

I will be filtering my Porter in the next couple of days and since it leaves my servers the dirtiest, I will do a test. I'll clean it under pressure, then open it up to see the results. Of course it will only be a visual inspection but I'll post the results.

[BigWilley]

Sorry but with GABF and all i got busy and forgot to post my results as promised. i cleaned the Porter server under pressure and then opened it up, all was fine except for a film on the manway door that looked like beer stone but wiped off easily. I do have a large inner stainless lip on my manway area so maybe shadowless manways wouldnt have this problem. As for me i will discontinue the practice. Brew and learn.

[dlgore]

CIP under pressure

An acid CIP under pressure of bright tanks saves a lot of time and money. I found that cleaning cycles could extend to 10 or more with no ill effects or beer stone deposits. A system was in place to ensure that every bright tank was totally dismantled and caustic cleaned after 10 acid CIP under pressure. Saves humongous amounts of CO2.
DLG

[Adventinus]

Make Sure Those Prv's Are Gettin' Clean Boys.