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Ideal boiling system for brewpub?

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  • Ideal boiling system for brewpub?

    I'm ready to start getting some quotes on systems for my brewpub project, and wanted to get some input from other brewpub brewers on pros and cons for electric vs steam, etc...

    I expect the place to be pretty small...50 or so seats and around 1500 square feet. Given the small space, I need a heating system that will be both small and will cause the least amount of disturbance for patrons. Compounding the problem is the electric outlets in Japan don't come higher than 200 volts unless you jump through some serious hoops...so not sure electric is possible with that low of voltage.

    Any input on what others are doing at their brewpubs would be appreciated!
    www.devilcraft.jp
    www.japanbeertimes.com

  • #2
    nope

    electric is never, ever, ever, good for beer. Steam is best, use direct fire if you have to. Electric always ends up costing more in the long run and will scorch your beers.
    Larry Horwitz

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    • #3
      Steam, steam, steam

      Go with steam, whatever you do. Electric is expensive and slow, and direct heat is great if you like caramelized beers
      No seriously, I have researched a wide variety of heating techniques (and am trying to design a small scale of a new one) and steam is the way to go. Great heat transfer, immediate reaction whenever you open a valve and you can use it to sterilize (e.g. lines).
      Boilers and piping for steam are expensive so make sure you position your boiler as close to your kettle as possible, without offending your fire marshall. If you really want to go fancy, get a steam generator.

      BelgianBrewer
      Last edited by BelgianBrewer; 04-05-2008, 01:32 AM.

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      • #4
        The best and least invasive would be without a doubt steam, even for a small system not under 250liter, you can find small electric heated steam boilers, which will work fine. They not expensive either, mabey just the install, but you'll save lots more money than going with electric.

        the other option would be gas flame, or direct heat, I prefer this heating because of the effect on the wort, but steam is always best and less problematic....

        i have heard of people using oil heating as well, seems like a budget way to heat through steam / cooling jackets.
        www.Lervig.no

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        • #5
          *sigh* yeah...

          I like steam as well...I just don't know if I like it in such a small area with my rig being so close to the restaurant...

          If I go with one space I'm favoring, my brewhouse will have about 400 square feet of space, and will be like 10 feet away from the closest table. My current plan is to brew in the morning and open the restaurant at 4 pm, (Bars and restaurants in Japan don't open until 5 for the most part) which is good because it gives me some time to get the humidity and temperature down to a manageable level without the luxury of a central cooling system. (only used in big department type stores, small spaces have wall units)

          I haven't really considered direct fire because of the possible lingering smell of fumes given the small space. Electric I liked (hotspots be damned!) because of the lesser humidity in the small space. Steam is ideal for brewing for sure, but there's just so much...well, steam!

          Given the space issue, I didn't want to allocate any of my footage to a boiler room, as well as my impression that there will be a lot more increased humidity I'll have to get rid of before customers start coming in. Of course, my impression on the humidity increase is coming from the 15 bbl system I'm brewing on right now, and a pub sized system might not have the same issue...any input on these thoughts?

          Thanks guys, appreciated as always
          www.devilcraft.jp
          www.japanbeertimes.com

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          • #6
            Lots of brewpubs have their breweries right in the center only a few feet from the tables. The downside is that you'd have to get up early and make sure you're done brewing by the time the customers arrive. Maybe you can cordone off that area during lunch. Besides, it makes for a more palpable dining experience sitting right next to the brewhouse, as long as you don't spray caustic in their mahi-mahi parmesan pesto soup.

            By the way, someone is experimenting with microwaves to boil wort. It's too expensive in Europe, but apparently still affordable in the US. That idea scares me, but it'd be a way for you to use your electricity.

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            • #7
              A boiler for a small sytem up to 7bbl would take up about 1 square meter of space. the humidity caused by condesing steam could be recovered back to the boiler or tubed out to a drain. If you install a kitchen grade aeration fan (it can be incorporated into the vapore stack of the brew kettle), you can keep the area very cool and very dry.
              www.Lervig.no

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              • #8
                Yeah. The "increase in humidity" would be from the steam coming off the wort, not the steam running through the jackets. The same amount of water vapor will still be entering the air, regardless of how you heat the wort.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by crassbrauer
                  .......By the way, someone is experimenting with microwaves to boil wort. It's too expensive in Europe, but apparently still affordable in the US. That idea scares me, but it'd be a way for you to use your electricity.

                  Any updates in regards to the "someone" experimenting with microwaves?

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                  • #10
                    When I did a search a few months ago, it had been dropped. Off the top of my head, I think it was Huppmann researching this. No other information, but since most of the research is done for the big brewers, I think it will have a lot to do with the fact that getting big enough generators for say 1000 hl is just not possible, or rather, I suspect, getting the power supply. Since a number of people use vapour recompression of the evaporated steam, using either mechanical or thermal systems, this makes for a pretty efficient boiling system. You can't use this method without steam as the heating medium. I also suspect that even if you use heat recovery systems to preheat the wort on transfer from LT to kettle, there is still a fair amount of heating to do. Again, this is simpler if you use steam. I also got the impression that steam is more flexible and simpler to control, as it doesn't have to be "On" or "Off" as microwaves appeared to be.

                    Now I expect to find an announcement in tomorrows press about this novel wort boiling sytem !!

                    Cheers
                    dick

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