Midco Burner sizing

[OwlBat]

Ok, I know this has been hashed to death in other threads (I've read most of them) and there's a lot of variables, and therefore little consensus. But here goes:

The manufacturer of my 5bbl insulated direct fired kettle and HLT is suggesting the Midco Economite EC200 (200,000 BTU max) as adequate. Opinions vary as to if this is actually adequate at all. I am considering the EC300 (300,000 BTU max) to be safe, although at extra expense.

Separate question: How about for oversized HLT (7bbl), also insulated, typically filled with already warm-to-hot water from an on-demand/tankless propane hot water system.

I worked at a place with a 15bbl Premier system that used a 400K BTU Midco, and it was more than adequate...

Cheers.

[BroadWay411]

Here you go

You are going to get a bunch of responses on efficiency of your burners, adjusting them for peak performance, etc. Ultimately what do you want out of your system? Ability to achieve a boil in 40 mins or 80 mins (these are hyotheticals)? Here is a link from a prior conversation about a similar size system.

http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?30538-5BBL-Burner-Question

Here is also a link for a simple heating calc; keep in mind direct fire burner efficiency can be as low as 30%. This calculator is for water and not sweet wort so it isn't completely accurate but will give you an idea of what you are working with.

https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/thermodynamics/water-boiling-time-calculator.php

On a final note, I've never heard someone complain that their burner was slightly over-sized. I have, and still do however, hear brewers complain endlessly that it takes them 2 hours to achieve a boil during a brew day.

[OwlBat]

You are going to get a bunch of responses on efficiency of your burners, adjusting them for peak performance, etc.

Yep. That said, the model/s of burner are very well known and very common in small breweries. And lets assume I have them well installed and adjusted for peak performance by a qualified gas tech.

Ultimately what do you want out of your system? Ability to achieve a boil in 40 mins or 80 mins (these are hyotheticals)? Here is a link from a prior conversation about a similar size system.

The usual - minimum time to get a boil going, quick heating of HLT if it's topped up between processes. Not spending money unnecessarily on oversize equipment (so many threads here on X-BTU burners derated to essentially the output of the lesser model, due to high flu temps or boil jumping out of the kettle?.

Here is also a link for a simple heating calc; keep in mind direct fire burner efficiency can be as low as 30%. This calculator is for water and not sweet wort so it isn't completely accurate but will give you an idea of what you are working with.

Cheers, I'll check out the links.

On a final note, I've never heard someone complain that their burner was slightly over-sized. I have, and still do however, hear brewers complain endlessly that it takes them 2 hours to achieve a boil during a brew day.

Indeed! Like I said, I probably can't go wrong with the bigger 300K option. I was looking for some general field opinions (backed up by some calcs of my own, and equip manufacturer recommendations) to give me piece of mind enough to move eg. "200K is heaps, go for it!" or "300K is spot on" or to throw up a red flag for more research eg. "even 300K won't be enough, you're nuts!"

Appreciate you thoughts!

[jags0401]

We have a well designed 5BBL insulated kettle with an EC200 burner. We turn the burner on once about a barrel of wort has been collected, though we could potentially fire it earlier. It takes about 20-30 minutes after final runnings to reach boil. For comparison sake, our firebox is ceramic insulated and the flame contacts a radiant plate to prevent scorching. The flue was designed for appropriate draw and internal flue temperatures are fairly low. Gas supply to the burner, orifice, and makeup air were all designed to be optimally supply the burner. Would the 300 be faster? Sure, but I don't mind the extra 30 minutes to do other tasks.

Our HLT is 5BBL, insulated, and electric. We also use propane hot water on demand units to fill the HLT between strike and sparge. We build and acidify our water in the HLT and drain the entire volume for each step - we do not (currently) double batch in a day. Even then, we can supply our HLT sufficiently with hot filtered water in the volumes we need. The element is used to polish or maintain temperature until ready for use. Notice, however, that I said units. A single on demand unit will be painfully slow at even warm temperatures. Multiple units can be plumbed in series or parallel to achieve much faster flow rates.

As an aside, we reuse our spent filtered chilling water for cleaning, rinsing, CLT reuse, subsequent brews, etc. It's just stored elsewhere prior to use, which is why our system is the way it is.

[OwlBat]

Great insight, thanks!